Doubt about the vram and bioshock infinite
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precisely because of my case, I doubt the fps they get in the reviews. I have both a 7970 and the gigabyte 670 windforce, and exactly the same settings, everything in ultra and at 1080p and smaa injector in high in both cases, and there are some areas, for example at the beginning of the game there is a small room with 2 sick people, well there with the 670 it drops to 42fps, with the 7970 it goes to 60, that's why I say it, because it's a strange time when supposedly nvidia performs better in this game.
the 7970 is on an i5 2500k at stock and with 8gb ram, the 670 on a 2600k also with 8gb, I've tried disabling ht on the 2600k among other things and it's the same, there I get some drops to 42fps for no reason, in a very small room and with barely 2 guys on the screen.
the thing is that searching on google you can see how this game gives a lot of problems with nvidia graphics, among other things they recommend lowering the quality of the shadows to high and postprocessing to normal, I've also tried lowering the shadows from ultra to very high and automatically the fps go from 42 to 60, so the problem must be either in the game or in the nvidia drivers, because it's not normal that the shadows suck up 20fps going from very high to ultra, and even with everything in ultra the shadows are pretty bad and with some pixelization that's unnecessary, to be honest.
by the way, when I've been playing for a while, I start to get graphic errors on the screen, buildings disappear in the game and you can see the game map cut off, a very strange thing. I have the latest drivers, 320.18 whql, and the graphics card doesn't have oc, except for the one that gigabyte already has by default, about 1110-1124 with boost.
I have no choice but to play it on the 7970, does anyone else have those graphic errors with nvidia graphics?
I've played it in surround and I haven't had those problems you mentioned, on the contrary the framerate was pretty stable.
If it's been a while since you last formatted I'd encourage you to do it, many times a clean installation fixes many problems with drivers, etc..
Regarding vram consumption, when you run out of vram in a game you notice it. The game "stops", literally and the framerate drops to 0, until it empties that memory and fills it again, causing the framerate to plummet again when it fills it up, entering a loop. Believe me when you run out of vram in a game you'll notice it right away.
Salu2…
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jotole, in general the game is going very well, the problem I'm saying is having the shadows on ultra, and that's where the fps drop, I checked it yesterday and it happens with the 7970 too, although less pronounced, but from 60fps it drops to about 50-48 without anything on the screen, it's looking at a specific place, for example a wall and a big drop, it's lowering the shadows from ultra to very high and 60fps constant, I don't think it's a matter of formatting but the game has some bug with the shadows and it's going downhill, the d3d overrider the other day worked for me with the 670 and now if I activate the d3d overrider the game gives an error and doesn't start.
as I say, it must be a matter of the game, because in the 2 pcs I have I have absolutely nothing, I don't have anything but the essential programs, and the temporary files on a ramdisk, the hard drive defragmented and the registry cleaned with the cccleaner, among other things. The win7 is updated and the drivers of the graphics are also the latest, 320.18 whql and the catalyst 13.5 beta 2
but well nothing happens, besides I don't notice any difference with the shadows on very high instead of ultra, and that way the game goes to 60fps constant both in the 670 and in the 7970.
regards compañeros
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wow, every now and then when I'm playing bioshock infinite I get artifacts, exactly what's happening to me
and I'm freaking out thinking that the gigabyte 670 is dying and apparently it happens to more people, in the comments of the video there's one with a 780 and it happens to them too.
wow with this crappy game ¬¬, they say that disabling the light shafts fixes it, but what are light shafts? something related to lighting?
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precisely because of my case in particular, I doubt the fps they get in the reviews. I have both a 7970 and the gigabyte 670 windforce, and exactly the same settings, all in ultra and at 1080p and smaa injector in high in both cases, and there are some areas, for example at the beginning of the game there is a small room with 2 sick people, well there with the 670 it drops to 42fps, with the 7970 it goes to 60, that's why I say it, because it's a strange thing when supposedly nvidia performs better in this game.
the 7970 is on an i5 2500k at stock and with 8gb ram, the 670 on a 2600k also with 8gb, I've tried disabling ht on the 2600k among other things and it makes no difference, there it gives me some drops to 42fps for no reason, in a very small room and with barely 2 guys on the screen.
the thing is that by searching on google you can see how this game gives a lot of problems with nvidia graphics, among other things they recommend lowering the quality of the shadows to high and postprocessing to normal, I've also tried lowering the shadows from ultra to very high and automatically the fps go from 42 to 60, so the problem must be either in the game or in the nvidia drivers, because it's not normal that shadows suck up 20fps going from very high to ultra, and even with everything in ultra the shadows are pretty bad and with some pixelation that's unnecessary, to be honest.
by the way, when I've been playing for a while, I start to get graphic errors on the screen, buildings disappear in the game and you can see the game map cut off, a very strange thing. I have the latest drivers, 320.18 whql, and the graphics card doesn't have oc, except for the one that gigabyte already has by default, about 1110-1124 with boost.
I have no choice but to play it on the 7970, does anyone else have those graphic errors with nvidia graphics?
I don't know what problems you're referring to or where that room is that you mention, but I assure you that what happens in the fair booths area is a mapping load.
I can also tell you from my part that I've played the game at full settings, finishing it, and playing at 60 fps without any problems. That is, with the game patched and with the latest drivers, two points that must go together to avoid the initial problems with nvidia, due to that magnificent planning of the Gaming Evolved plan that made the developer not deliver a definitive build of the game to nvidia until after its release.
The patch and the driver came out approximately 10 days after the release. On the other hand, I don't understand why you use something like the SMAA injector when the game already incorporates FXAA, and it seems to be one of the advanced and latest versions of the postprocessing filter, in that sense very similar to SMAA. Using third-party software to force filters is not a good idea in many cases, certainly not when the game also incorporates its own equivalent filtering technology for postprocessing.
I already told you, 60 fps nailed with vsync, and I've already finished it twice, in hard mode and 1999 mode, and with everything maxed out. That is, with the latest drivers, and of course the patch. And following configuration guides for the game, editing the pool size to increase it.
Regards.
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wow, every now and then when I'm playing bioshock infinite I get artifacts, exactly what happens to me
and I'm freaking out thinking that the gigabyte 670 is dying and apparently it happens to more people, in the comments of the video there's one with a 780 and it happens to them too.
wow with this crappy game ¬¬, they say that disabling light shafts fixes it, but what are light shafts? something related to lighting?
That problem seems like one of graphics "death", it's not something as simple as a graphic option, the error is huge, and I already told you that I've played a lot of hours of the game with zero light graphic artifacts, nothing like that.
That problem of texturing and colored triangles flickering is typical of graphics about to die, mostly. Maybe you've gone too far with the OC and that's why you see artifacts, but I already told you that Bioshock is not even close to being the game that most pushes the OCs of graphics, quite the opposite.
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well I don't know, the graphics card only has the OC that comes from the factory, which on mine is about 1124 boost, the thing is that it only does it in Bioshock Infinite, and after playing for at least an hour, although it's true that I haven't given the graphics card much use since I bought it until I played the aforementioned Bioshock. I don't know what to think anymore, I've run benchmarks, Unigine, 3DMark, and it doesn't have any graphical errors, when I bought it it already had the F12 BIOS which is supposedly the good BIOS that fixes some problems with the GDDR5 frequencies, and I don't think it's because it's plugged into a Corsair HX750W. And as I say it doesn't have any OC, in fact I rule out that it's because of micro OC or something like that because none of the components in my equipment have OC, not even the CPU. -
what I don't understand is that if he is about to die why do those artifacts appear after playing for a while? at least 1 hour or more.
well I'm going to play another game disabling the light shafts and see what happens, I'll keep my fingers crossed…
pd. the fxaa blurs the image, something that in my opinion the smaa doesn't do, I even checked it in bioshock infinite and that's why I've deactivated it, I prefer the smaa from the street, maybe bioshock uses the latest version but I still see a blurring in the image that smaa doesn't give.
I have bioshock updated and it's original (I was given it with the 7970) and the drivers I have are the 320.18 whql.
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wwwendigo what graphics do you have?
I've recorded a video about the fps drops with shadows on ultra, practically a 20fps drop, a mess no matter how you look at it, it also happens on the 7970 but less pronounced.
and about the artifacts, I've been playing for 2 hours, everything perfect, until I took the elevator that takes you to the airfield and then they started to appear, so clearer water, it's a matter of the game or the nvidia drivers.
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wwwendigo que grafica tienes?
he grabado un video sobre las bajadas de fps con las sombras en ultra, practicamente 20fps de bajada, una burrada se mire como se mire, en la 7970 tambien ocurre pero menos acusado.
y sobre lo de los artefactos, he estado jugando 2 horas, todo perfecto, hasta que he cogido el elevador ese que te lleva al aerodromo y entonces han empezado a salir, por lo que mas claro agua, es cosa del juego o de los drivers de nvidia.
Al principio al ver tu vídeo te diría que tienes algún problema de Vsync, ya que la implementación del mismo en Bioshock es penosa, con él activo existen ciertas escenas, sobre todo las más scriptadas, que tienden a ponerse por sí sólas sobre 30 fps con el vsync integrado en el juego, sin razón alguna ya que no provocan en absoluto más carga en la gráfica.
Pero por lo que veo en tu video tu gráfica mantiene la carga al máximo, así que por ahí no parece ir el tiro. De todas formas, veo que sigues probando el juego usando un programa de terceros para forzar el SMAA, prueba primero sin ese tipo de programas a ver si tienes los mismos problemas, porque no será la primera vez en que programas de terceros dan problemas.
De todas formas, por la opción que cambias, y tras rebuscar un poco en el juego (no sé qué escena es la que has escogido, qué capítulo tendría que elegir), he encontrado alguna área aislada de bajadas (bueno, una de momento, también una puerta, en este caso cerrada) donde bajan los fps con la opción de sombras dinámicas al máximo.
Posiblemente sea un problema de diseño del mapa, esa opción de sombras dinámicas me recuerda enormemente a la que había en Borderlands I y que provocaba que en ciertas áreas el rendimiento del juego bajara a 30 fps o poco más dando igual la gráfica usada, ya que en este caso no había carga, y era un problema de coste de cpu de dicho efecto (cuanto mejor cpu y más oc se usara, menos bajaba la tasa de fps).
Ambos juegos comparten el UE3, ambos juegos juegan con esa opción de sombras dinámicas posiblemente implementando un efecto no demasiado pulido o experimental en el UE3, y ambos tienen problemas con secciones del mapeado. Aunque la diferencia está en que en Borderlands se ve más justificado que en Bioshock, donde además no parece haber una dependencia de cpu, ni siquiera la carga gráfica parece justificarlo.
Quizás sea el mismo "viejo efecto experimental" de Borderlands más "afinado" pero que se acaba de estropear con las mil opciones extrañas metidas en el juego respecto a sombreado, bajo el programa Gaming Evolved:
Donde se implementan efectos como los de contact hardening shadows o el HDAO, temas que modifican cómo se gestiona el sombreado en un juego aumentando mucho el coste de las sombras, y que puede que se esté aplicando también (así se entiende) sobre un efecto como el de sombras dinámicas con la máxima calidad, que si es el mismo efecto de UE3 que tanto coste tenía en cpu (y en gpu, pero más en lo primero) en Borderlands, lo que menos necesitaba es que pusieran dos efectos extra trabajando sobre éste, aunque haya sido pulido (consumo de cpu normal).
De todas formas, yo no me rompería la cabeza, estas absurdas bajadas de fps son raras de encontrar, son más habituales las zonas de transferencia/carga de datos de mapeados (solución, ninguna), o el bloqueo a 30 fps si juegas con Vsync en ciertas escenas scriptadas (solución, jugar sin vsync o con él adaptativo).
Bioshock, por buen juego que sea, no es el mejor ejemplo ni remotamente de un port bien realizado, piensa en esas ridículas cargas en juego y su consumo de memoria central por parte del juego, de unos 600-800 MB, mientras por otro lado se dedica a llenar la VRAM de datos basura sin hacer limpieza alguna. Esa "consolitis" que tiende a poner al juego a 30 fps (por cierto parecido a la velocidad a la que el problema que mencionas tiende, también) cuando le cuadra, o esa necesidad de manipular el archivo de configuración para que el juego use un poco mejor la abundantísima memoria principal para evitar por lo menos algunas de las cargas por streaming del mapeado.
Es posible que cuando en AMD han implementado esas técnicas de sombreado sobre la que ya existía, lo hicieran sabiendo que no iba a afectarles "demasiado" (dices que también te baja el rendimiento), sea como sea no es más que otro caso de falta total de optimización de cómo se programa o implementan técnicas en un juego. Es ridículo que haya un par de puntos del juego donde la tasa de fps baja sólo por mirar a una puerta?, que además en muchos casos ni se puede abrir.
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what i don't understand is that if he's about to die why do those artifacts appear after playing for a while? for at least 1 hour or more.
well, i'm going to play another game disabling the light shafts and see what happens, i'll keep my fingers crossed…
pd. the fxaa blurs the image, which in my opinion the smaa doesn't do, i even checked it in bioshock infinite and that's why i've disabled it, i prefer the smaa out of the box, maybe bioshock uses the latest version but i still see a blurring in the image that smaa doesn't do.
i have bioshock updated and it's the original one (i got it with the 7970) and the drivers i have are the 320.18 whql.
Ah, i forgot, sorry for the multipost (can't edit either¿? the previous comment), about the graphics i have, an Asus DirectCUII GTX 670, i also use drivers 320.18whql (now), although i played the game with previous drivers (314.XX). i suppose the problem doesn't come from the new drivers, but who knows. first we would have to try without an injector behind.
PD: The FXAA doesn't blur the screen, not at all, the only thing it does is lower the contrast in textures with high contrast in them, nothing more. it uses an edge detection algorithm based on the contrast difference between adjacent pixels, if an area doesn't have that high contrast, it leaves it exactly the same, it doesn't touch it. therefore it doesn't blur the image, although it can change contrast and some tone, and of course it removes the aliasing of many edges. it only interpolates pixel values when it detects "edges", whether they are real or not (contrast changes in a texture, for example).
In fact SMAA works in a very similar way, it is also based on an edge detection algorithm by differences in the properties of adjacent pixels, so one defect can be in the other, and vice versa (there are at least three versions of FXAA, and i think as many of SMAA).
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well, thank you for the explanation and clarification, wwwendigo, about video tearing. the truth is that I play with adaptive vsync enabled in the nvidia driver, because as you say, if I enable it in the game, it locks my fps at 30fps and I can't play like that, so I have vsync off in the game menu, and to make matters worse, triple buffering doesn't work through the d3doverrider (or maybe I'm the only one it doesn't work for ¬¬), so as I see it, I'll finish playing with the 7970, which, by the way, also has fps drops with shadows on ultra, although not as pronounced as on the 670, and at least on the 7970 I can enable triple buffering through radeon pro. the truth is that there are some parts that are a bit convoluted, in general it always runs at 60fps, but I just don't see any sense in having such brutal drops in an area like the one in the video where there's absolutely nothing on the screen, we're talking about a crappy port and I can't find another explanation.
one last question, wwwendigo, about the artifact problem, if it really were the graphics, don't you think it's strange that it only happens with bioshock and after 1 or 2 hours of playing? isn't it supposed to be that if the graphics have a problem, artifacts would also appear in unigine, 3dmark, or other games? because besides the fact that bioshock doesn't load the graphics at 99% constantly all the time, like unigine heaven does, which benchmark do you recommend I run on the graphics and for how long to rule out that it's a graphics problem? I don't think it's the graphics since it only does that to me in bioshock and it could be, as you say, because of the smaa injector.
regards
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bueno pues gracias por la explicacion y aclaracion wwwendigo, sobre el tearing del video, lo cierto es que juego con el vsync adaptativo activado en el driver de nvidia, porque como bien dices, si lo activo en el juego me bloquea los fps a 30fps y paso de jugar asi, por lo que el vsync del menu del juego lo tengo en off, y para colmo el triple buffering no funciona mediante el d3doverrider ( o lo mismo soy el unico al que no le va ¬¬ ), asique visto lo visto, voy a terminar de pasarmelo con la 7970, que por cierto con ésta tambien tengo bajadas de fps con las sombras en ultra, aunque no tan acusado como en la 670, y al menos en la 7970 puedo poner triple buffering mediante el radeon pro. lo cierto es que son algunas partes un tanto rebuscadas, en general va siempre en 60fps, pero esque no le encuentro ningun sentido a que en una zona como la del video donde no hay absolutamente nada en pantalla pegue esas bajadas tan brutales, vamos que es un port de mierda y no le encuentro otra explicacion.
una ultima pregunta wwwendigo, sobre el problema de los artefactos si realmente fuera la grafica no te parece raro que solo pase con el bioshock y despues de hora o 2 horas de juego? no se supone que si la grafica tiene algun problema saldrian tambien artefactos en unigine, 3dmark u otros juegos? porque ademas es que el bioshock no carga la grafica al 99% constante todo el rato, como si hace el unigine heaven, que benchmark me aconsejas que le pase a la grafica y durante cuanto tiempo para descartar que sea un problema de la grafica? no creo que sea la grafica ya que solo me hace eso en el bioshock y puede ser como tu dices por el smaa injector.
un saludo
Sobre lo primero que dices, el problema de esos programas de terceros es que a pesar de que son muy útiles, algunos para activar cosas tan útiles como el triple buffering en apps DX, y otras cosas, sin embargo no podemos asegurar al 100% que no vayan a provocar alguna anomalía por su uso. El problema que dices de las sombras dinámicas en ultra es cierto que no tiene sentido. No lo tiene porque los bajones se aplican en zonas donde uno se espera de todo menos eso (curiosamente en puertas, ambos hemos encontrado esto en puertas), yo hasta el momento seguro que estaba confundiendo las pocas veces que pasa esto por las sombras con las áreas de carga de mapeado donde precisamente ocurre una ralentización similar (pero que desaparece en el tiempo si dejas que acabe de cargar, eso sí, si giras la cámara 180º ya la cascas porque se pone a cargar el área anterior y vuelve a bajar).
Son ralentizaciones relativamente raras y poco importantes en el desarrollo del juego, pero demuestran que el juego necesitaba un afinado bien fuerte para funcionar en PC, ya sea por las absurdas cargas in game (teniendo como tienen los PCs memoria principal de sobra), ya sea por implementar las sombras dinámicas en el UE3 (opicón "nativa") y puede que interaccionando negativamente con los efectos integrados por el plan Gaming Evolved de AMD.
Eso de que baje en todas las gráficas el rendimiento, y en situaciones de tan poca apariencia visual, ya sea más con la GTX 670 ya sea menos con la 7970, demuestra el punto de que no está bien implementada esta técnica, ya sea por la combinación o no con otras. Así que tocará olvidarse del tema y asumir que es como las zonas de carga, un mal menor aceptado con el juego, o combatirlo parcialmente y jugarlo con la 7970, que al fin y al cabo tanto da una como otra, a la hora de la verdad (combates) ambas van sobradamente bien. Me pregunto cuándo un port de consola se hará como dios manda en temas tan importantes y BÁSICOS como el del Vsync, en vez de incluir mamarrachadas a mayores olvidándose de implementar bien el juego con las ventajas de la plataforma PC (memoria, vsync de 60 Hz o los que toque y de calidad).Sobre el tema de corrupción de gráficos, tienes razón en que si no falla en aplicaciones como las que mencionas no parece un defecto de la gráfica, y más cuando además se habla de bioshock que efectivamente no es un caso de juego pesado para las gpus.
Yo probaría a dejar dos de los tests más pesados, Heaven 4.0 y Valley durante un buen rato en loop para comprobar que no hay problemas, son muy buenos detectando problemas en gráficas. Entre juegos, yo me quedaría sin duda con Metro Last Light, un peso pesado totalmente comparable en cuanto a testeo de estabilidad a los dos tests mencionados, incluso por encima del ya más que buen juego para probar la estabilidad que es Crysis 3, de los mejores entre los recientes.
Pero como el Metro Last Light, no hay nada, sólo tests artificiales pueden igualarlo. Si no falla con ninguno de estos 3 pilares de la estabilidad, habrá que pensar que sí, que es una anomalía del soft de tu equipo, ya sea por el driver de nvidia, su posible interacción con otros drivers, o temas de parcheos del juego o interacción con programas como el injector, el overrider o el que toque. En ese caso probar a jugar sin ninguno de estos programas detrás estaría bien para descartar que sea el driver, y si sigue fallando, entonces se confirmaría que algo pasa entre bambalinas con el driver, ya sea sólo por él, o por interacciones a saber con qué.
La verdad es que el fallo es muy raro, se parece un montón a los fallos típicos de una gpu que tiene problemas con el OC o que empieza a fallar, yo he visto cosas similares en otras épocas con gpus susceptibles del problema de las soldaduras cuando empezaban a fallar (antes del fallo total), con esto te lo digo todo.
Pero igual es lo que dices, a pesar de su aparatosidad, y es un fallo del soft, si aguanta los tests que te he dicho en loop o una partida de muchas horas de Metro, seguro que sí.
Saludos.
