Bankia, Bankia, future, future

[cslbcn]

What if they make a corralito?

[cobito]

@cslbcn:

¿Y si hacen un corralito?

Ummm, ¿un corralito in Spain? I see it as unlikely. Keep in mind that Argentina is (and was at that time) a developing country without any kind of mechanism to prevent this kind of thing. Spain is in a situation of considerably higher economic development than Argentina.

Note that Ireland, Portugal and Greece are broke countries, that are getting by with foreign aid with risk premiums that exceed, in the case of Greece, 2000 points and there is no sign of that situation either.

I wouldn't worry about that.

[Franziskaner]

@cslbcn:

¿Y si hacen un corralito?

damn, well, two chickens, a couple of pigs and off you go like in the village;D
and a couple of goats or sheep as I don't like cow cheese;D
regards
P.D whatever happens you don't worry, as long as they don't kick us out of the euro, only if they do then you can worry:frio:

[cslbcn]

I hope so...

How simple it is not to spend more than you have... bloody banks.
Do you know of any bank that doesn't have problems and isn't a bastard like the others?

Although I think it had to be bailed out, is ING a good option?

[Bm4n]

Oh come on guys there are mechanisms, but this is not an infallible system, just the bankruptcy of Greece or its exit from the Euro and all of Europe will be screwed. So Franciscano Franziskaner save the facepalm for when it gets out of the crisis

[cobito]

@cslbcn:

Do you know of any bank that doesn't have problems and isn't a bastard like the others?

If by not being a bastard you mean not making investments in armaments and that kind of thing, you have Triodos, although it's not completely clean wheat. If you mean a bank that won't have solvency problems, go to a big bank with an international presence.

@Bm4n:

Oh come on guys there are mechanisms, but this is not an infallible system just with the bankruptcy of Greece or its exit from the Euro all of Europe will be in a state of chaos. So Franciscano save the facepalm for when it gets out of the crisis

Of course it's not an infallible system. The only infallible thing would be to buy a good piece of land, keep the deeds in a safe (to prove ownership in a future new regime), buy a couple of shotguns with a good amount of cartridges to defend said lands and learn to work the land: that's the only thing on this planet that will ensure beans in the future.

But speaking of probabilities, that everything goes to hell, wouldn't be the most plausible result precisely because there are mechanisms, fallible, but they exist.

And Greece leaving the Eurozone is almost completely in the hands of the Greeks. They will decide on June 17th if they want to continue being part of this system or, if on the contrary, they wish to abandon it. But that won't be a failure of the system, but a decision of the Greek people. From my point of view, the abandonment by Greece of the Euro will not have great repercussions for us. And by the way, since the 50% haircut of Greek sovereign debt was done, this country is technically bankrupt and has something bad happened to us? we hardly noticed.

It's just my opinion.

[cslbcn]

@cobito:

How? What takes away 50%?

[cobito]

@cslbcn:

Cómo? Que quita del 50%?

European banks and the Eurogroup have reached an agreement to forgive 50% of Greek sovereign debt. It is part of a European plan in which private financial institutions take on part of the burden in exchange for cheap money.

[cslbcn]

They could forgive the debt to all countries and companies. Debt generates poverty, so why not forget about debts and leave the world alone? If Europe has forgiven 50% of the debt and hasn't noticed anything, surely if they forgive 100% they wouldn't notice much either... The same in Spain. The Germans live well, let us alone, they will continue to live the same way.

[cobito]

@cslbcn:

They could forgive the debt to all countries and companies. Debt generates poverty, so why not forget about the debts and leave the world alone? If Europe has forgiven 50% of the debt and hasn't noticed anything, surely if they forgave 100% they wouldn't notice much either... The same in Spain. The Germans live well, let us be left alone, they will continue living the same way

We are entering into murky terrain so I will try to be as aseptic as possible.

Debt cannot be forgiven just like that. The money that countries pay in debt repayment + interest serves the financial institutions to carry out their activities which can be of any kind. Western banks have been affected, since the subprime crisis, by an unprecedented liquidity crisis, that is, they don't have a cent. In the case of Spain, not only are banks affected by the Californian credit crisis but a large part of their assets have become thousands of houses that are worth nothing. That is, banks, which need money, have everything but money. If a large-scale condonation were made, banks could not continue with their normal activity and then there would be a risk that things like "corralitos" would happen, the abandonment of several states of the eurozone or even a disintegration of the EU. And that without counting that at the precise moment of default, Spain would cease to be able to finance itself independently, with the disadvantages that this has (see Greece).

The reason why it has been possible to do that with Greece is because its GDP is about 300 billion while that of Spain is 1.4 trillion (almost 5 times higher). The Greek write-off has meant a considerable effort for the banks that has been compensated with cheap money, but it is not difficult to imagine that with the solvency problems that exist, a mass default would be disastrous.

And as for the Germans living well, it is not entirely true. There the unemployment is relatively low, but that has been achieved by lowering wages a lot: instead of laying off, workers have reached agreements to work fewer hours (and earn less), that is, they have shared the little work and money there is. In fact, in recent months the number of Germans WITH work living below the poverty threshold has skyrocketed.

I wish everything were as easy as saying "well, you don't pay and that's it", but that decision would trigger a series of undesirable effects.

[packosoft]

so far we are not doing badly, but let's not let this degenerate into political issues, eh???

[amd125]

@packosoft:

at the moment we are not doing badly, but let's not let this degenerate into political issues, eh???

Well, one of the reasons why they want to brush over the boxes without investigating them thoroughly is precisely because of that, because politics has been done in many of them, which is why many measures or operations that have been carried out in the boxes were due to political pressures, not the interest of the boxes themselves. This excuses bankers from their responsibility. And in the whole thing there are people from all political sides, which is the most unfortunate thing. We have a political class that honestly we do not deserve.

The worst thing in the end is that responsibilities will not be cleared up and that the increase in taxes, both direct and indirect, will affect everyone, but more so those who, like me, do not exactly have much left at the end of the month.

But in the end, deep down, we have what we deserve... because this is a black people's picnic but there are no protests in the streets, they swallow it like sheep. In France, for example, they are better off and they demonstrate for much lighter things. In Spain, a large part of the evening news dedicates a large part to the European Football Championship. It is a matter of priorities.

And I don't say anything more because I get hot :mudo:

[Fassou]

The best way out that Spain currently has as a country, is to obtain financing in a cheaper way than what it gets in the free market of public debt. That is, to get a loan from some superpower (read USA, Germany, China or Russia) at 3-4% with tariff counter-performance in the case of China or Russia, cession of Bases in the case of the USA, etc...

Salu2!

PD: Talking about the financial crisis, if getting into politics is impossible ¬¬

[Bm4n]

I don't think there's much political discussion possible... no government has done what it should, will do or will do in the future (the phrase is valid by substituting government for bank :troll: ).

[kynes]

Let's be honest, I'm tired of hearing that we have politicians who don't deserve us. Aren't they a true reflection of Spanish society? Come on, don't bullshit me, the saying "if you want to know fulanito, give him a load" is for something, here even the president of the community is corrupt, and if you think about it, the class delegate is too. And regarding the banks... Didn't we want public banks? Well, here you go, two cups.

[kalevala]

I've been playing with futures doing intraday trading for a long time, I don't do it anymore because it consumed too much of my time and you have to be super attentive to the stock market ticks, so I had to choose between science and the stock market and I opted for the former. My quick opinion from work:

1- The guys at Bankia are sons of bitches, I feel sorry for those who became "bankers" back in the day and now have lost 1/4 of the value of the shares. I think they have prohibited short orders but if I could I would definitely bet against them. If I could now I would wait for them to drop to 30 cents per share (theoretical floor) and put all my money into futures waiting for the bailout

2- Paul Krugman says there could be a bank run in Spain. I know he likes to make a splash and is sensationalist, but he has a Nobel prize and knows something. I think Greece will leave the euro and that will have disastrous consequences for the other PIGS. In any case, De Guindos has said that it is "technically impossible for a bank run to happen in Spain", and since the illiterate government (of whatever color) usually laughs at us and does whatever they feel like (pensions, VAT, etc.) I think that statement scares me more than what Krugman says

3- I had 4000 euros saved in Bankia. Since I'm lucky enough to live and work in the USA today I've transferred almost all the money here in dollars, I'm not sure if it's a good move or not, but I live in dollars anyway, and I'm scared to wake up one day, for my euros to have turned into pesetas and to be worth half of what they were worth

My view is a bit pessimistic regarding what's going to happen in Spain at all levels. I'm not even going to talk about science because I get worked up, but I think we're on the edge of a cliff and with shit up to our ears, I hope I'm wrong.

Regards!

[Franziskaner]

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@Bm4n:

Oh venga chicos hay mecanismos, pero esto no es un sistema infalible solo con la quiebra de Grecia o su salida del Euro a toda Europa se va le van a poner los machos por pajarita. Así que Franciscano el facepalm guardatelo para cuando se salga de la crisis

hola
si no te sabe muy mal es Franziskaner
SEGUNDO :
el :facepalm: tiene su sentido , aunque después de editar ….
saludos
P.D paso de el tema que tal y como están las cosas solo sirve para calentar a la gente . y aunque personalmente tengo mucha experiencia creo que, paso de el tema en cuestión .

algo mas de nuestro agrado estas

saludos .

P.D 2 como sigáis mareando os cuelgo las fotos de los presis y banqueros para que tengáis pesadillas "tipo FEAR"
;D;D

[Fassou]

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Para conseguir una salida política de la crisis, tendría que ser lejos de los grandes partidos, que son controlados por los "lobbies" financieros, gracias a sus grandes deudas, que ríete tú de los equipos de fútbol <:(

El problema de estas grandes crisis, es que el descontento saca a flote a los radicales, que a cambio de darte una taza de "lo que se tiene que hacer", te meten 3 ó 4 de lo que nó, como ocurre con muchos partidos de ultraderecha que entran por primera vez en varios parlamentos nacionales europeos :facepalm:

Salu2!

PD: kalevala, un placer verte por estos lares :sisi:

[kalevala]

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Fassou siempre estoy por aqui, lo que pasa es que no prestas atencion ;D

Saludos!

[Tecnho]

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@kalevala:

He jugado con futuros haciendo operaciones intra dia durante mucho tiempo, ya no lo hago pq me consumia demsiado tiempo y tienes que estar super pendiente de los tics de la bolsa, asi que tuve que elegir entra la ciencia y la bolsa y em decante por lo primero. Mi opinion rapida desde el curro:

1- Los de Bankia son unos hijos de puta, lo siento por los que se hicieron "bankeros" en su dia y ahora han perdido 1/4 del valor de las acciones. Me parece que han prohibido las ordenes en corto pero si no hubiese apostado contra ellos sin duda. Si puediese ahora me esperaba a que bajasen a 30 centimos la accion (suelo teorico) y meteria todo mi dinero en futuros esperando el rescate

2- Paul Krugman dice que puede haber corralito en espanya. Ya se que le gusta dar la nota y es sensacionalista, pero tiene un premio nobel y algo sabe. Creo que grecia va a salir del euro y que eso tendra consecuencias nefastas para los otros PIGS. En cualquier caso, De Guindos ha dicho que es "tecnicamente imposible un corralito en espanya", y como los analfabetos del gobierno (del color que sean) suelen reirse de nosotros y hacer lo que les da la gana (pensiones, IVA, etc) crep que esa afirmacion me da mas miedo que lo que diga Krugman

3- Tenia 4000 eurillos ahorrados en Bankia. Como tengo la suerte de vivir y trabajar en USA hoy me he transferido casi toda la pasta aqui en dolares, no se si es un buen movimiento o no, pero es q de todas formas yo vivo en dolares, y me da miedo levantarme un dia, que mis euros se hayan convertido en pesetas y que valgan la mitad de lo que valian

mi vision es un poco pesimista con respecto a lo que va pasar en espanya a todos los niveles. de ciencia ni hablo pq me enciendo, pero creo que estamos al borde del precipio y con la mierda hasta las orejas, ojala me equivoque.

Saludos!

Te hubiese gustado el programa de salvados de la semana pasada, hablaban de científicos de España y españoles trabajando fuera