Android newbie

[cobito]

Hi. A few days ago I bought a tablet for about 60€. It's this one. I bought it to get into the Android world, play around with it and see how useful a device like this is and if, in the future, I should get a better one.

The thing is that Android has me a bit crazy in terms of how it works. The fact that it's so crippled seems a bit frustrating considering that everything runs on a Linux kernel.

The thing is that when I install certain applications, even if I close them, they keep running in the background. Some are not a problem because they take up little memory and do nothing, but others like Facebook consume a significant amount and also do operations periodically. When I "kill" the process, everything is fine, but when I run it again and close it, it stays running in the background.

The device has Android 4.2. The way I close applications (I don't know if it's the correct way) is by tapping on this icon:

then I drag the application to one side and it disappears. The problem is that in some (like games) it does close completely but in others, like Facebook, Firefox and others, they remain running in the background consuming resources.

I know about task killers and I think they are a bit trashy utilities to be honest. I think that everything around Android regarding system management is surrounded by a halo of crapiness without feeling considering that it is still Linux.

The first question is: how can I make certain applications not to keep running in the background when I close them?

The rest of the questions will come later.

Thanks.

PD: For now I don't want to root the device since the guides I find are focused on very specific devices and I don't want to risk it so soon.

PD2: About the device, I've been pleasantly surprised by the overall performance and 3D power, although sometimes it gets a bit slow. The web browsing thing (using Firefox) has disappointed me because of the slowness but using apps everything works like a shot.

[Sylver]

I found a site to ask around when the Z1 arrives (if the gods are with me and it's final this time)

What I recommend to you right now, Cobito, is the Battery Doctor app, which saves a lot of battery and also constantly monitors the times of everything (exact duration, remaining charging time, etc.)

Greetings

[Nemo]

Since Gingerbread (Android 2.3) RAM management has improved a lot. Android is not like Windows. In this system, RAM that is not used is wasted RAM and closing apps can be counterproductive.

Let me explain: You don't have to close apps. When you stop using it, it goes "to sleep" in memory waiting for you to use it again. If you start new apps and the system needs more RAM, it will automatically close the old apps that were "asleep" until it frees up the RAM that the new app needs. If you close them and start them again, the system has to load them back into memory, so you'll need to use the processor and consume more battery than if they were kept "asleep".
For that reason, with versions higher than Gingerbread, I don't recommend using a task killer.

When apps are not in use, they don't consume resources. But some, like Facebook, keep a minimal activity to sync the latest notifications and update the news. But they don't consume like if you were using them.

Use the recent apps button to close apps that don't work properly (just like you do now) and block the system (and try to get rid of it and look for an alternative) or to quickly switch between apps.

You can ask as much as you want, another thing is that you find an answer :ugly::ugly:
No, seriously, if I can help you I will ;D

Best regards

[cobito]

Perfect.

The Facebook app is especially egregious. I've noticed that when I launch certain apps (it happened with a game), it launches the Facebook process even though I didn't ask for it. So I deleted it (the FB app) because I think it's a bit of a Trojan horse that certain apps ask to run FB with your pre-entered credentials without any permission or notice.

A few days ago I was looking into the whole memory issue and came to the same conclusion you mentioned, Nemo. The problem is that this tablet is limited and when it runs out of memory and gets tangled up doing operations like closing unnecessary processes, it freezes.

What I would like is to have control over what runs and what doesn't so that it runs smoothly at all times, leaving only what I use frequently in the background (for example, I don't mind having Firefox or Youtube in the background).

Second issue: the tablet comes with certain apps that I won't use that load into memory as soon as it starts up like the google search, "Browser", "Mail", Hangsout and others. Is there a way to delete them or to make them not start up when the system starts? I don't mind not deleting them (I have enough storage), but I would like them not to run in the background. When I "stop the process" of these, they automatically start up again after a while.

[Nemo]

You can control every single process running on your Android (with Android you can control absolutely everything), but to do so you need to be a root user, as it involves having superuser access to certain system files. This can be done from apps that monitor the entire system or with modified kernels that allow you to "mess around" much more with what's happening under the hood.

Regarding Facebook, it's the games (or third-party apps) that require Facebook services, to share scores or receive those of your friends and, as you rightly point out, when you install it you have given it the necessary permissions to do so. I am pleasantly surprised that, finally, someone reads the installation permissions before madly clicking the Accept button. ;D

Some of the apps that come pre-installed can't be uninstalled (at least not without being root), but you can disable them.

To do this, go to the Settings > Applications menu. Find the app you want to disable and tap on it. On the app's information screen, tap on Clear Cache and Clear Data, to minimize the space it takes up. Then tap on Force Stop and finally on Disable. From now on, the app will stop working until you decide to re-enable it in the same way.

Best regards

[Sylver]

Can you play in God mode with Jelly Bean 4.2? (i.e., identify yourself as a root user) or is it mandatory to replace the kernel (change software/install a cooked rom)?

I'm interested in knowing what I can or cannot tinker with when I dive into the Android world.
Many thanks, great master Nemo

Regards

[Nemo]

Being root only involves modifying the access permissions to the system files. You can be root and keep the stock ROM, change the ROM, change the recovery, the radio (it's not the FM radio :troll:, it's the radio that receives the phone, wireless networks, etc.), kernel, etc. You can do whatever you want.

It is a reversible process, but doing so disables the manufacturer's warranty, which excuses itself in that you have been able to modify something in the system that has harmed the device. Being root can also prevent you from receiving official updates for your device.

If you still want to proceed, you must find the specific rooting method for the exact model of your phone and for the version of Android that you have installed. In some devices, it is even necessary to take into account the version of the band that you have installed. If you do not use the appropriate method, in the best of cases, you will not be able to unlock these permissions. In the worst, you will have a nice (and expensive) paperweight.:wall:

Best regards

[Sylver]

@Nemo:

Being root only involves modifying the access permissions to the system files. You can be root and keep the stock ROM, change the ROM, change the recovery, the radio (it's not the FM radio :troll:, it's the radio that receives the phone, wireless networks, etc.), kernel, etc. You can do whatever you want.

It is a reversible process, but doing so disables the manufacturer's warranty, which excuses itself by saying that you have been able to modify something in the system that has damaged the device. Being root can also prevent you from receiving official updates for your device.

If you still want to proceed, you must find the specific rooting method for the exact model of your phone and for the version of Android that you have installed. In some devices, it is even necessary to take into account the version of the band that you have installed. If you do not use the appropriate method, in the best case, you will not be able to unlock these permissions. In the worst, you will have a nice (and expensive) paperweight.:wall:

Best regards

Wow, thank you very much for the very clear explanation Nemo, I understood it on the first try, which I did not expect xD

I add that after I understood, I have already accumulated enough respect for the matter to not put it into practice, at least not very soon… :ugly:

Regards

[cobito]

Interesting about the root. I thought it could only be done with a modified kernel...

Another question. Sometimes it happens to me that I leave an app doing things in the background (eg. Firefox) and when I come back it opens a new window, as if I had closed it and then opened it again. Is that normal?

In the specific case of ff I realize that it consumes a lot of memory (about 150mb). But it also happens to me with other lighter apps. Others, on the other hand, do not have this behavior.

Thank you very much.

[Nemo]

Sylver, the wolf is not as fierce as they paint it. Being a root user has many advantages (more than not being one). You just have to use the correct method to do it, inform yourself about it and follow the developer's instructions to the letter.
If things are done right, nothing should happen, in fact, they are becoming more and more simple and almost automatic. The thing is that out there there are many who should have had their hands eaten by a pig. :facepalm:

Being a root user on Android, like good Linux, is simply changing the permissions to modify the system files. Exactly the same as in any Linux. But it is a bit more complicated than putting SU in a terminal and putting a password. Sometimes you have to modify the phone's "boot system" so that it recognizes these permissions. There is a risk of rendering the phone unusable, since if it gets damaged it may not start up again. Doing things right it is unlikely to damage it, but it can happen and you have to be aware of it.

As for the apps, it depends on how you exit them. If you exit with the Back button (arrow) it will close the tasks that were performing. If you use the recent apps button or the Home button, the tasks should be maintained. But that also depends on how well the apps are designed.
I don't know what behavior Firefox has, since I don't use it (Chrome is the native of my Android and I already like it) but the normal thing is that if you exit with the Home button or the recent apps button, when you return, you find the app with the tabs open, just as you left them.

Best regards

[Bm4n]

In Android you have several parts:

• Boot or startup that comes locked by default to start or update.
• Bootloader, which we install by replacing the one that comes with the device that doesn't give options and is like a bios and what gives the system startup, it's also where root access is given (sometimes it can be written in the bootloader that comes with the device).
• Radio, the basic system that manages networks.
• Kernel, the base of the OS.
• OS, the version of Android that is what you will see on the screen.
• Data, or the space where applications go.
  And there are other parts like the sd, the Dalvik cache, etc. not so relevant.

It's important to know this, because you don't always need to delete everything. First, a general backup and then before changing a part you make another small backup of what you're going to change from the bootloader. And almost always you start by plugging into the pc to load the bootloader, then you load a zip via usb to the sd and install it via the bootloader. You can also do everything via usb on the PC but you run the risk that the connection will be interrupted for any reason.

You'll get used to it, it's not like a pc, it's also logical. You're not supposed to have to worry about whether it's running or not right now, if you want lower consumption disable automatic synchronizations and push services of the apps you have and for battery consumption just look in the battery management to see if there's something unwanted spending.

Root is just as safe as not having it, it's more right now for me it's completely unnecessary, I only do it when unlocking the bootloader (something that some brands use to not process the warranty...). I say unnecessary because the latest versions of android give controlled permissions for almost everything, the problem with a cheap phone is that you'll need to "boost" a lot of things for it to work well fluidly, don't think that with a terminal of 60€ you'll be able to see how one of 600€ goes; what you will be able to do is tinker to your liking and realize how flexible android is and the amount of uses and options it gives compared to iOS for example.

Some tricks that you might want to try is to increase the internal ROM memory with a fast microsd, give a faster format to the system partition, increase the swap, and of course switching to 4.4 if possible will help you gain speed. And then tricks of the OS like removing animations, using a faster launcher or eliminating system processes from memory.

Sent from my iPad with Tapatalk HD

[Nemo]

Oops, I didn't want to overwhelm you at first with all the technical jargon :ugly:, but the fellow Bm4n has been very clear in his instructions. I agree with Bm4n that with that tablet you won't be able to get the same fluidity, nor comfort as with one of a higher range. But I can assure you that by trying to get it, you will learn a lot and very quickly to handle Android. The pity is that with that model you may not find much technical support from the developer community, as far as ROMs, modified kernels, etc., are concerned. As for the root, I also agree with the fellow. I don't have my Android rooted at the moment because I don't need it, and I assure you that I tinker a lot with the mobile's configurations. Best regards Tapatalk for ZX Spectrum

[victorpexacos]

@cobito:

… The first question is how can I make certain applications not run in the background when I close them?...

In Settings -> Phone information
you press 10 times or something like that on Android version and developer mode will appear in the settings.

Inside this, at the end there are a couple of options about applications in the background, apart from all the other options.

If it's not in Android version, press the build number,

I hope it helps you.

Regards

Edit: I use root mainly to remove advertising from applications (AdAway)

[cobito]

@Bm4n:

You'll get used to it, it's not like a PC, it's also logical. You're not supposed to worry about it running or not right now, if you want less consumption, disable automatic synchronizations and push services of the apps you have and for battery consumption, just look in battery management to see if there's something spending undesired.

Root is just as safe as not having it, it's more that right now for me it's completely unnecessary, I only do it when unlocking the bootloader (something that some brands use to not process the warranty...). I say unnecessary because the latest versions of Android give controlled permissions for almost everything, the problem with a cheap phone is that you'll need to "boost" a lot of things for it to work well fluidly, don't think that with a 60€ terminal you'll be able to see how one of 600€ goes; what you can do is tinker to your liking and realize how flexible Android is and the amount of uses and options it gives compared to iOS for example.

In no case do I expect the tablet to replace my PC. It may replace many of the functions of a netbook. With the 60€ tablet, I get a pretty good idea of what I can do with any tablet: software limitations, manageability, ergonomics, multitasking (which leaves much to be desired because many apps stop when left in the background...), etc.

The big differences between a 60€ tablet and one of 600€ are performance and screen. The rest: battery life, camera quality, sound quality, sensors, etc. are irrelevant to me as long as some minimums are reached. And the 60€ one reaches those minimums.

It will take a long time until I spend 600€ on a tablet (I have other priorities like changing my PC).

With the 60€ one, you can do many things and quite fluidly. You just have to find the right software (for example, I've realized that the integrated web browser is quite fast and manageable) and be aware that I can't have many applications open.

When I get the hang of it, it may become a pretty comfortable device for doing basic tasks and considering that on the PC I spend most of the time on this type of tasks, I think it can be squeezed for a season.

@victorpexacos:

In Settings -> Phone Information
press 10 times or something like that in Android Version and developer mode will appear in the settings.

Inside this, at the end there are a couple of options about background applications, apart from all the other options.

If it's not in Android Version, press the build number,

I hope it helps you.

Regards

Edit: I use root mainly to remove advertising from applications (AdAway)

Those options are quite interesting but playing with them I realized that there's no point in obsessing over memory. If a program is very large, it will definitely be slow (for example, I can forget about using Firefox or Openoffice on this tablet). If I use the appropriate programs, the system does a good job managing memory. If the program is demanding, maybe the first few seconds of use are a bit slow, but immediately it starts to go well.

[Bm4n]

Logically, a tablet serves you as a netbook or better (except that the keyboard is not built-in), and to start any one will do; the only thing is don't settle for the experience of what you comment that apps close in the background or that there are websites that don't run smoothly, because spending a little more (in case you get hooked) you will notice that this doesn't happen.

Browsers are essential, chrome on my mobile works great for me but it's a bit heavy, the lightest would be something like opera mini. You will see that the loading times change from one browser to another. And forget about memory, with yours be careful not to leave things unsaved in the background but the idea is that you let the system kill unused processes automatically.

I'm eager to try an android tablet last model, it's been a while since I changed because you depend a lot on the soft of the brands which constantly change forgetting the old models. And now with the iPad I wouldn't change it :rolleyes:

[cobito]

Actually, background tasks have quite a few drawbacks on Android. On the one hand, there are apps that stop processing what they are doing: for example, when I start listening to music via streaming and move it to the background, the music stops and continues when the browser returns to the foreground. This does not happen with the app corresponding to the streaming service.

And the fact that the program closes when there is not enough memory is a pretty big problem even on good tablets. The only difference is that with tablets with little memory it happens more often, but I don't think it's normal to be scared that the app might close and lose what's in it just for leaving it in the background. On a good tablet, it will be rarer for this to happen, but when it comes time to free up memory, it will happen.

[Bm4n]

@cobito:

Actually, background tasks have quite a few drawbacks on Android. On the one hand, there are apps that stop processing what they are doing: for example, when I start listening to streaming music and move it to the background, the music stops and continues when the browser returns to the foreground. This does not happen with the app corresponding to the streaming service.

And the program closing when memory is low is a pretty big problem even on good tablets. The only difference is that with tablets with low memory it happens more often, but I don't think it's normal to be scared that the app might close and lose what's in it just for leaving it in the background. On a good tablet, it will be rarer to happen, but when it comes time to free up memory, it will happen.

It depends, I for example listen to streaming music while doing other things and it stays in the background without closing, all apps that are with notification have priority over those that are not. The lack of memory is a problem depending on what you do, and although everything has a limit, it's different to fill 512mb than 1gb than 2gb; and the task killer closes things depending on the remaining free space, logically...

I for example on the tablet (and it has 1GB of RAM) I usually have many processes open and it's not the first time I lose some text in an application because the system understands that it is inactive and should close it, don't expect the system to understand that I have half a comment written in tapatalk and while I've been watching an HD video, for it another app is more important that has no priority over the app on the screen.

Even with the word processor if you have saved, you stick to the automatic save and recovery and if not you can lose it, just like it can happen on a PC... it's nothing new, but with these devices the system can close an app without you wanting or realizing because it needs memory or because it stops working. I warn you, if you get scared it's not my fault :ugly:

[tambe]

Hello, I use LBE for JB, which is called MIUI, to grant or remove permissions. For those with Android 2.xx, LBE works great. Then, to put apps to sleep in the background when I don't use them, I have Greenify, and it saves a lot of RAM.

[deeiivid]

You don't need to spend 600 to have a good tablet, now with the Nexus 7 (229 euros) you can do everything and have a wonderful time. With those, you have really good support and you can even put Ubuntu on them.

Now, with the 60 one, you'll have enough for something more than the basic functions, but if you see that you're not enjoying it because it's slow or things keep closing, you already know why it is, don't get discouraged.

Nowadays, I think tablets are much better for some things than the old netbooks (there are cases with keyboards). Except that they have less physical connectivity.
I'm a big fan of Android, to be honest, I have a Nexus 4 and I'm delighted. If you like tinkering and do things that go beyond the normal use of a modern mobile, there's nothing better than Linux.

[cobito]

After a month with the tablet, I can draw some conclusions.

At first I installed applications to make up for all the possible functions of my netbook: browser, email client, remote transmission client, ssh, video player and office suite basically.

Over time I have stopped using some applications like the ssh client because it is very uncomfortable. I use the browser exclusively to look up information but it is not at all comfortable to participate. On the other hand, there is tapatalk, which is not bad for making quick queries or leaving short comments.

I don't like the keyboard case because I usually hold the tablet like an ebook, vertically and with the flap of the case folded back. With a keyboard, I would press keys involuntarily and the feel of a keyboard is not pleasant to hold.

As for office suites, I have not found anything competent, at least nothing that can read docx and odf documents correctly. I was able to install openoffice, but its performance is terrible and the interface is not the most suitable for a tablet. So for that I would say that a tablet is not suitable.

I don't have a smartphone and in the end, the use I give it is basically for communications: checking email and the damn wassap (which, by the way, I find quite practical).

Occasionally I listen to music, other times I watch some video, but ultimately, I don't give it much use.

If I had a tablet with greater performance, my habits would not change much: perhaps I would use the web browser more and so on.

In any case, it does not replace all the functions of a netbook, because on this one I have other applications like Matlab, IDEs, cad programs… And that in no way can a tablet Android/iOS have. Also a netbook is infinitely more comfortable to use for editing and consulting text files or spreadsheets. Also the precision of the mouse increases the comfort of navigating any interface.

In summary for me, 60€ is fine for a tablet mainly because now I have wassap. Perhaps I could spend 100 or 120 on something better, but for what I can do with one, I wouldn't spend more than that: I prefer to spend triple on an x86 tablet like an Asus Transformer with which I can do absolutely everything.

When Linux is polished for ARM I will change my way of seeing the matter, but Android is a toy operating system and the software available is also a toy, no matter how much it seems to replace all the needs of most people.