Mid-high range gaming PC.
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Curiously for other reasons (noise, I thought the GPU bracket was touching one of the fans) I removed the side cover.
Results...
I went from almost 100 degrees in the same game to 50 degrees.
We're talking about a tower that brings in air with 6 fans plus one in the back and exhausts it all from the top through the AIO.
It didn't have bad temperatures in the CPU but in the GPU.
Conclusion:
The GPU needs direct air intake.
And 80% of the towers don't have it.
Which looks great with the F.A. down below with a cover... But in terms of cooling it's a chestnut.
So for now I will launch the modular tower project without R.L for the GPU.
Regards -
@clipper said in Mid-high range gaming PC.:
The GPU needs a direct air intake.
And 80% of the towers don't have it.You do have it, what is poorly developed.
Do you remember those cheesy photos I sent you?
Made with cardboard?, well it had a dedicated front fan,
and a kind of tunnel that leads that air to the back of the graphics card so that it doesn't get lost going straight to the exit, but without covering the upper half of the card where the hot air comes out.
There was a tower like that but they didn't follow it, I think people put silly objections, maybe like not allowing to show off or look at it daily so they scrapped it.@clipper said in Mid-high range gaming PC.:
It looks great with the F.A. down with a cover... But in terms of cooling it's a chestnut.
Do you say it because you can't put lower fans to supplement the graphics?
It's not essential, a 14cm front fan would give the necessary flow for sure, since most of that air is consumed by the graphics card.
@clipper said in Mid-high range gaming PC.:
I removed the side cover.
Results...
Went from almost 100 degrees to 50 degrees in the same game.@clipper said in Mid-high range gaming PC.:
We're talking about a tower that brings in air with 6 fans plus one in the back and exhausts it all from the top through the AIO.
You should read more of yourself.
If you want, don't listen to me but you already know that I've been telling you that the rear fan should be exhausting air.It's fine that if you build the tower from scratch you'll have it exactly to your liking, but many objections (which they are) that you comment on can be greatly improved even in the generic tower.
You flip the rear fan, put the cover back on and start a game. Then go to the rear fan and tell me how much is missing for the bread to come out 
Best regards.
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@clipper said in Mid-high range gaming PC.:
Curiously for other reasons (noise, I thought the GPU support was touching one of the fans) I removed the side cover.
Results...
I went from almost 100 degrees in the same game to 50 degrees.
We're talking about a tower that brings in air with 6 fans plus one rear fan and exhausts it all from the top through the AIO.
I didn't have bad temperatures on the CPU but I did on the GPU.
Conclusion:
The GPU needs direct air intake.
And 80% of the towers don't have it.
It looks great with the F.A. cover down... But in terms of cooling it's a disaster.
So for now I'll launch the modular tower project without R.L for the GPU.
RegardsAs @defaultuser comments, check that ventilation system because unless I misunderstood, the 6 fans are bringing in air, right? I'm not an expert and whenever I have doubts I resort to theory, so I'll give you some information about positive, negative and neutral pressure, which may help you or anyone else who reads it:
Negative pressure. In these cases, there are more fans exhausting air from the inside of the case than bringing it in. This makes the internal pressure inside the case slightly lower than atmospheric pressure. Therefore, to try to balance the pressures, air will enter wherever it can. From other grilles of the case, up to the seals of this one.
Positive pressure. These cases work with the opposite concept to the previous one. In them there are more fans bringing in air than exhausting it. Given that the pressure inside the case is higher than atmospheric, the air will try to exit wherever it has space to do so.
Neutral pressure. As you might guess, in these cases as much air enters as exits, maintaining a stable pressure inside at all times.
As a rule, the vast majority of cases sold today, especially high-end ones, tend to be positive pressure. As a comparison to what happened years ago, when most cases used the negative pressure system inside.
The three types of cooling systems have both advantages and disadvantages:
Negative pressure system: it is the one that evacuates hot air from the inside of the case more efficiently. Not only this, but it also prevents the formation of hot air pockets inside. In general, these types of configurations tend to improve cooling of the processor and its surrounding areas quite a bit. But they have the disadvantage of allowing a lot of dust to enter the case. So, in the case of wanting to use this type of configuration in our case, you will have to clean its interior more frequently.Positive pressure system: the positive pressure system is the one that will accumulate less dust inside the case. But it is also the one that cools the worst. Since the air is forced to exit the inside of the case, it is necessary for it to have grilles that are very little restrictive to the passage of air. Otherwise, the air accumulates inside. The fact is that, these types of cases tend to be quite prone to suffering from hot air pockets.
Neutral pressure system: for its part, the neutral pressure system is the most balanced of the two. It doesn't have the dust accumulation problems of the negative pressure system. Or the hot air pocket problems of the positive pressure cases. Therefore, this system is the one that will cool our components best.
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@_neptunno_ You've nailed it, this was exactly what was needed, great contribution.
There's one thing missing, in neutral pressure it's also the way in which aerodynamic noise is normally generated the least.
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So my setup is positive pressure.
7 fans blowing air in and the aio is blowing all the air out (apart from the grilles)
If I change the rear fan, so that instead of blowing in, it blows out... I will still have a positive pressure tower, 6 blowing in and four blowing out (the aio has three ML120 fans)
Now, my tower has the following options:
Front 3 fans
Right side 3 fans
Top 3 fans (that's where the aio is)
Rear 1 fan
Currently they are all blowing air in except for the aio which is blowing all the air out (apart from the grilles)
@defaultuser
You can fit two fans under the GPU.
Interestingly, the ones from Corsair put the option to mount two SSDs on top of the F.A cover so I have two threads where I can put some heatsinks and a piece of acrylic to hold two fans.
But... Under that cover (drilled in honeycomb) is the F.A and all the cables so it has little air intake.
But we'll take it step by step, this week I'll try to finish the pull/push on the aio.
And then I'll deal with the custom tower, it remains to be seen if it's profitable or if it's better to buy the P80.
My concept of a custom tower without R.L for the GPU.
4 fans on the bottom blowing air in, that gives air to the GPU
From 3 to 4 fans on the front blowing air in
Aio on top
And two on the back blowing air out.
The F.A in the side panel.
And if I go to custom R.L.. lower and upper attachments.
Regards -
@clipper said in Mid-high range gaming PC.:
So my configuration is positive pressure.
7 fans blowing air in and the aio clogs up all the exhaust (apart from the grilles)
If I change the rear fan, so that instead of blowing in, it blows out... I will still have a positive pressure tower, 6 blowing in and four blowing out (the aio has three ML120 fans)
Now, my tower has the following options:
Front 3 fans
Right side 3 fans
Top 3 fans (that's where the aio is)
Rear 1 fan
Currently they are all blowing air in except for the aio which blows all the air out (apart from the grilles)
"Positive pressure system: the positive pressure system is the one that will make the least dust accumulate inside the case. But it's also the one that cools the worst. Since the air is forced to exit the inside of the case, it is necessary that it has grilles that are very unobstructed to the passage of air. Otherwise, the air accumulates inside. The fact is that, this type of cases are usually quite prone to suffer from hot air pockets."
If you load all the air exhaust to the AIO, even if they are 3 fans, the air flow will be quite limited and you will surely have hot air pockets.
In the end you have 10 fans, although we count the 3 of the AIO, but they will not be as effective because there is a lot of resistance for the air to exit through the radiator. But well, I would try to put more fans blowing out than blowing in, that is, I would leave only the three front ones blowing in and the rest blowing out air.Keep doing tests and measuring temperatures, with the same conditions, that is, the same tests and the same ambient temperature.
@defaultuser said in Mid-high range gaming PC.:
@_neptunno_ You nailed it, this was exactly what was needed, great contribution.
One thing is missing, in neutral pressure it is also the mode in which less aerodynamic noise is usually generated.
Well, more than nailing it, I put the information that I usually consult to remember how it works, you can't see how important it is to have it clear.
Thanks for the note on neutral pressure
Regards!
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@_neptunno_ said in Mid-high range gaming PC.:
@clipper said in Mid-high range gaming PC.:
So my configuration is positive pressure. 7 fans blowing air in and the AIO is blowing all the air out (apart from the grilles) If I change the rear fan, so that instead of blowing in, it blows out... I will still have a positive pressure tower, 6 blowing in and four blowing out (the AIO has three ML120 fans) Now, my tower has the following options: Front 3 fans Right side 3 fans Top 3 fans (that's where the AIO is) Rear 1 fan Currently, all are blowing air in except the AIO which is blowing all the air out (apart from the grilles)
"Positive pressure system: the positive pressure system is the one that will cause the least dust to accumulate inside the case. But it's also the one that cools the worst. Since the air is forced to exit from the inside of the case, it is necessary that it has grilles that are very unobstructed to the passage of air. Otherwise, the air accumulates inside. The fact is that this type of case is usually quite prone to suffering from hot air pockets."
If you load all the air output to the AIO, even if they are 3 fans, the airflow will be quite limited and you will surely have hot air pockets. In the end you have 10 fans, although we count the 3 of the AIO, but they will not be as effective because there is a lot of resistance for the air to exit through the radiator. But well, I would try to put more fans blowing out rather than blowing in, that is, I would leave only the three front ones blowing in and the rest blowing out air.
Keep doing tests and measuring temperatures, with the same conditions, that is, the same tests and the same ambient temperature.
@defaultuser said in Mid-high range gaming PC.:
@_neptunno_ You nailed it, this was exactly what was needed, great contribution.
One thing is missing, in neutral pressure it is also the mode in which less aerodynamic noise is normally generated.
Well, more than nailing it, I put the information that I usually consult to remember how it works, you can't see how important it is to have it clear.
Thanks for the note on neutral pressure
Regards!
As configured, my tower could put the rear fan blowing out air as @defaulser mentions But the fans on the right side are attached to the front ones, I think if I put them blowing out I won't gain anything... Because they will pull out the air that the front ones blow in. Regards
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@clipper said in Mid-range gaming PC.:
But the fans on the right side are stuck to the ones on the front, I think if I put them blowing air out I won't gain anything... Why would they blow out the air that the front ones blow in
Nobody has said that. Indeed it wouldn't give much benefit.
What neptunno is suggesting is to leave only three intake fans in the front, and the rear and AIO fans blowing out.
It means that on the side you don't put any fans either blowing in or blowing out, in fact you would put some caps that will come to cover the three holes.
He also tells you to do some tests.
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@defaultuser originally the Tower comes with a lid on the right side, I put fans inside,( removing the lid and I didn't gain anything )
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@clipper said in Mid-high range gaming PC.:
Originally the tower comes with a cover on the right side
Yes, of course, the one I'm telling you about.
@clipper said in Mid-high range gaming PC.:
I put fans inside, (removing the cover and I didn't gain anything)
Yes, we already know that, who told you to flip the rear panel, if you had done what I told you, it would have benefited you. Since you posted the rear panel change, I've been telling you to put it out, taking it out.
In fact, my initial idea was only the AIO from the front and roof and rear fans out (all 4)
I don't understand your last post, you're repeating the same thing, are you claiming a supposed bad advice?
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@defaultuser said in Mid-high range gaming PC.:
@clipper said in Mid-high range gaming PC.:
Originally, the tower comes with a cover on the right side
Yes, of course, the one I'm telling you about.
@clipper said in Mid-high range gaming PC.:
I put in fans, (removing the cover and I didn't gain anything)
Yes, we already know that, who told you to flip the rear, if you had done what I told you, it would have benefited you. Since you posted the rear change, I've been telling you to put it out. In fact, my initial idea was only the AIO from the front and ceiling and rear fans out (all 4)
I don't understand your last post, you repeat the same thing, are you claiming a supposed bad advice?
No. I never consider advice to be bad
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I take this opportunity to remind/refresh that in towers with exhaust at the back and top and more intake at the front, hot air always moves backward and upward, more specifically towards the rear fan and towards the rear-upper corner.
This naturally varies a bit depending on the exact distribution of the fans, but that tendency always predominates.
In most cases the place where proportionally more heat comes out of the graphics card is through the rear fan, simply because of its location.
This behavior only disappears completely in unusual cases, such as when the air enters and exits exclusively through the floor and the ceiling.Attachment:
The rear fan also participates in the ventilation of: mosfets, m.2 drive, graphics card backplate, capacitors and the rest of the upper pcb area, and it can also improve the flow in the ram.
All these components are harmed thermally speaking, when hot air pockets are kept swirling inside the case, and the heatsinks work with a mix of fresh and recirculated/reheated air. -
Well I will follow your wise advice. In this order:
Stress test CPU and GPU as is
Change the rear fan to exhaust
Test CPU and GPU
Mount the AIO mount for pull/push
Same tests.I may make a mount for two 120/140 fans to. Give more air to the GPU but lost to the river...
I threw myself into the custom RL -
Due to lack of time I haven't done anything...
Well, yes.
I have flipped the rear fan and used holy water.
It no longer sounds like a turbine.
The most ridiculous thing is that I read an article about the position of fans with grilles and did the worst thing you could do
When I have time I have many open wars I will comment more.
Regards
