Mid-high range gaming PC.

[Clipper]

In theory, HD tune only allows you to do the read test.
Except in the paid version.
And with that, we are left halfway in serious tests...
Regards

[defaultuser]

@clipper If I remember correctly, it does sequential reading and random operations, with that you may have enough to check if the raid improves more or less, you can extrapolate the writes based on the disparity that the disks already have between writing/reading, that shouldn't change.

Knowing the performance of the disks separately beforehand, hdtune is enough to know how much the raid yields in general.

If you want to do a more thorough analysis, look for a limited time demo or something like that, or if there is any freeware out there.

[jordiqui]

@Clipper you are on the team of Hwot, could you pass a few benchmarks to improve the team's score. If I'm not mistaken, it's @krampak our captain

[Clipper]

That's done.
In a few days I'll upload it.

[Clipper]

Mounted the RAID 0 of three mn2.
The results are...
Curious.
In a while I'll upload the screenshot.
Regards

[Clipper]

greetings

[defaultuser]

@clipper ¿Que discos son?

[Clipper]

@defaultuser crucial P5 pro 500 gs
But it seems to me that it is not profitable...
Regards

[defaultuser]

@clipper said in Mid-range gaming PC.:

crucial P5 pro 500 gs

Most likely it won't.
I would get a good one for the system, and those three I either sell them or I add them to a raid and use it as primary storage.

[Clipper]

@defaultuser what doesn't add up to me is this: https://www.crucial.es/ssd/p5-plus/CT500P5PSSD8/CT20177648
And it is that RAID 0 is below the values that Crucial indicates for a single Mn2.
The only thing that comes to mind is that slot 1 is linked to the CPU and 2 and 3 are not and that creates a bottleneck.
Regards

[defaultuser]

@clipper
@defaultuser said in Mid-high range gaming PC.:

@clipper The first M2 slot is controlled by the cpu, the other two by the chipset.
The chipset communicates with the cpu through a pcie x4 channel, in theory it has plenty of bandwidth, but the response times will always be worse than in slot 1.
A raid0 in the first two slots probably performs poorly, and I think that's what you've set up based on the results.
A raid0 in the chipset should increase the transfer, but we'd have to see how much, and in any case with the speed that those disks already give by themselves....
To sum up, setting up the raid0 in the chipset to have a secondary large disk without paying the prices of "large" disks maybe not, but increasing performance with a raid0 on this platform I don't see it, you'll have to "settle" for the speeds of a single disk, which are already the best.
Now you're not really doing badly, but comparing prices, your two disks sold could even pay directly for the same but 1TB, or you can have double disk and have system on one side and games on the other and things like that, that is, a disk in the first slot and in the chipset another or a raid.

[Clipper]

@defaultuser two disks not...
Three disks in raid 0.
Regards
P.d the first screenshot I posted was a raid 0 of two disks on ports 1 and 2
The last one is three disks on ports 1 2 3.
Regards

[defaultuser]

@clipper If correct, but it doesn't matter for the case.
By putting the chipset into the equation, that is achieved, there are many differences from one way to the other.

[Clipper]

Well, after the fiasco of the RAID 0, I'll leave it on an mn2 for the OS
And I'll look at the raid 0 on ports 2 and 3 to see performance and do tests.

After which, depending on the results, I'll do one thing or another, sell the mn2s or keep them.

Since I already have the laser cutter operational at work, I'll make the parts for the pull/push of the CPU aio.
Initially the design was more complex... But simple is more effective.
I'll leave it in a 5mm methacrylate with the holes for the fans/radiator (they are the same) and a 10mm lid with the holes for the fans.
The assembly will be complex but I think effective.
The top cover will be a "four-petal margarita" system, I think it's the most effective.
In a few weeks, photos
Regards

[Clipper]

Curiously for other reasons (noise, I thought the GPU bracket was touching one of the fans) I removed the side cover.
Results...
I went from almost 100 degrees in the same game to 50 degrees.
We're talking about a tower that brings in air with 6 fans plus one in the back and exhausts it all from the top through the AIO.
It didn't have bad temperatures in the CPU but in the GPU.
Conclusion:
The GPU needs direct air intake.
And 80% of the towers don't have it.
Which looks great with the F.A. down below with a cover... But in terms of cooling it's a chestnut.
So for now I will launch the modular tower project without R.L for the GPU.
Regards

[defaultuser]

@clipper said in Mid-high range gaming PC.:

The GPU needs a direct air intake.
And 80% of the towers don't have it.

You do have it, what is poorly developed.
Do you remember those cheesy photos I sent you?
Made with cardboard?, well it had a dedicated front fan,
and a kind of tunnel that leads that air to the back of the graphics card so that it doesn't get lost going straight to the exit, but without covering the upper half of the card where the hot air comes out.
There was a tower like that but they didn't follow it, I think people put silly objections, maybe like not allowing to show off or look at it daily so they scrapped it.

@clipper said in Mid-high range gaming PC.:

It looks great with the F.A. down with a cover... But in terms of cooling it's a chestnut.

Do you say it because you can't put lower fans to supplement the graphics?
It's not essential, a 14cm front fan would give the necessary flow for sure, since most of that air is consumed by the graphics card.

@clipper said in Mid-high range gaming PC.:

I removed the side cover.
Results...
Went from almost 100 degrees to 50 degrees in the same game.

@clipper said in Mid-high range gaming PC.:

We're talking about a tower that brings in air with 6 fans plus one in the back and exhausts it all from the top through the AIO.

You should read more of yourself.
If you want, don't listen to me but you already know that I've been telling you that the rear fan should be exhausting air.

It's fine that if you build the tower from scratch you'll have it exactly to your liking, but many objections (which they are) that you comment on can be greatly improved even in the generic tower.

You flip the rear fan, put the cover back on and start a game. Then go to the rear fan and tell me how much is missing for the bread to come out

Best regards.

[_Neptunno_]

@clipper said in Mid-high range gaming PC.:

Curiously for other reasons (noise, I thought the GPU support was touching one of the fans) I removed the side cover.
Results...
I went from almost 100 degrees in the same game to 50 degrees.
We're talking about a tower that brings in air with 6 fans plus one rear fan and exhausts it all from the top through the AIO.
I didn't have bad temperatures on the CPU but I did on the GPU.
Conclusion:
The GPU needs direct air intake.
And 80% of the towers don't have it.
It looks great with the F.A. cover down... But in terms of cooling it's a disaster.
So for now I'll launch the modular tower project without R.L for the GPU.
Regards

As @defaultuser comments, check that ventilation system because unless I misunderstood, the 6 fans are bringing in air, right? I'm not an expert and whenever I have doubts I resort to theory, so I'll give you some information about positive, negative and neutral pressure, which may help you or anyone else who reads it:

Negative pressure. In these cases, there are more fans exhausting air from the inside of the case than bringing it in. This makes the internal pressure inside the case slightly lower than atmospheric pressure. Therefore, to try to balance the pressures, air will enter wherever it can. From other grilles of the case, up to the seals of this one.

Positive pressure. These cases work with the opposite concept to the previous one. In them there are more fans bringing in air than exhausting it. Given that the pressure inside the case is higher than atmospheric, the air will try to exit wherever it has space to do so.

Neutral pressure. As you might guess, in these cases as much air enters as exits, maintaining a stable pressure inside at all times.

As a rule, the vast majority of cases sold today, especially high-end ones, tend to be positive pressure. As a comparison to what happened years ago, when most cases used the negative pressure system inside.

The three types of cooling systems have both advantages and disadvantages:
Negative pressure system: it is the one that evacuates hot air from the inside of the case more efficiently. Not only this, but it also prevents the formation of hot air pockets inside. In general, these types of configurations tend to improve cooling of the processor and its surrounding areas quite a bit. But they have the disadvantage of allowing a lot of dust to enter the case. So, in the case of wanting to use this type of configuration in our case, you will have to clean its interior more frequently.

Positive pressure system: the positive pressure system is the one that will accumulate less dust inside the case. But it is also the one that cools the worst. Since the air is forced to exit the inside of the case, it is necessary for it to have grilles that are very little restrictive to the passage of air. Otherwise, the air accumulates inside. The fact is that, these types of cases tend to be quite prone to suffering from hot air pockets.

Neutral pressure system: for its part, the neutral pressure system is the most balanced of the two. It doesn't have the dust accumulation problems of the negative pressure system. Or the hot air pocket problems of the positive pressure cases. Therefore, this system is the one that will cool our components best.

[defaultuser]

@_neptunno_ You've nailed it, this was exactly what was needed, great contribution.

There's one thing missing, in neutral pressure it's also the way in which aerodynamic noise is normally generated the least.

[Clipper]

So my setup is positive pressure.
7 fans blowing air in and the aio is blowing all the air out (apart from the grilles)
If I change the rear fan, so that instead of blowing in, it blows out... I will still have a positive pressure tower, 6 blowing in and four blowing out (the aio has three ML120 fans)
Now, my tower has the following options:
Front 3 fans
Right side 3 fans
Top 3 fans (that's where the aio is)
Rear 1 fan
Currently they are all blowing air in except for the aio which is blowing all the air out (apart from the grilles)

@defaultuser

You can fit two fans under the GPU.
Interestingly, the ones from Corsair put the option to mount two SSDs on top of the F.A cover so I have two threads where I can put some heatsinks and a piece of acrylic to hold two fans.
But... Under that cover (drilled in honeycomb) is the F.A and all the cables so it has little air intake.

But we'll take it step by step, this week I'll try to finish the pull/push on the aio.
And then I'll deal with the custom tower, it remains to be seen if it's profitable or if it's better to buy the P80.
My concept of a custom tower without R.L for the GPU.
4 fans on the bottom blowing air in, that gives air to the GPU
From 3 to 4 fans on the front blowing air in
Aio on top
And two on the back blowing air out.
The F.A in the side panel.
And if I go to custom R.L.. lower and upper attachments.
Regards

[_Neptunno_]

@clipper said in Mid-high range gaming PC.:

So my configuration is positive pressure.
7 fans blowing air in and the aio clogs up all the exhaust (apart from the grilles)
If I change the rear fan, so that instead of blowing in, it blows out... I will still have a positive pressure tower, 6 blowing in and four blowing out (the aio has three ML120 fans)
Now, my tower has the following options:
Front 3 fans
Right side 3 fans
Top 3 fans (that's where the aio is)
Rear 1 fan
Currently they are all blowing air in except for the aio which blows all the air out (apart from the grilles)

"Positive pressure system: the positive pressure system is the one that will make the least dust accumulate inside the case. But it's also the one that cools the worst. Since the air is forced to exit the inside of the case, it is necessary that it has grilles that are very unobstructed to the passage of air. Otherwise, the air accumulates inside. The fact is that, this type of cases are usually quite prone to suffer from hot air pockets."

If you load all the air exhaust to the AIO, even if they are 3 fans, the air flow will be quite limited and you will surely have hot air pockets.
In the end you have 10 fans, although we count the 3 of the AIO, but they will not be as effective because there is a lot of resistance for the air to exit through the radiator. But well, I would try to put more fans blowing out than blowing in, that is, I would leave only the three front ones blowing in and the rest blowing out air.

Keep doing tests and measuring temperatures, with the same conditions, that is, the same tests and the same ambient temperature.

@defaultuser said in Mid-high range gaming PC.:

@_neptunno_ You nailed it, this was exactly what was needed, great contribution.

One thing is missing, in neutral pressure it is also the mode in which less aerodynamic noise is usually generated.

Well, more than nailing it, I put the information that I usually consult to remember how it works, you can't see how important it is to have it clear.

Thanks for the note on neutral pressure

Regards!