AMD Ryzen 7000 (Zen 4)

[_Neptunno_]

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We already have official information from AMD about the Ryzen 7000, including specifications, price, and release date. There aren't many surprises compared to the data we had from previous leaks, although as good "IT sailors" we were eager for that data to be confirmed and to expand the information further. On paper, they look very good, although we still need to see benchmarks and reviews to get a "real" idea.
The 7600X looks very good, although in terms of price it resembles the price of the 5600X and if I remember correctly, there were criticisms about that at the time. Personally, I share those criticisms, although I also understand that we were very well accustomed to the prices AMD put on the 1600X and 2600X, and even in the 3600X I think it went up a bit but was still within those more accessible prices. However, it is still 300€ for a "mid" range, although with a great performance, so I understand that many people may not be able to afford it. The good thing is that the 5000 will drop in price, so it won't be much of a problem... even when Intel presents Gen 13, maybe AMD will adjust prices and we users will come out winning.
In any case, the biggest problem will be the price of the boards and the price of DDR5 memory, and I don't know how much stock there will be for the 27th. I'm in no hurry, I'm going to save little by little, my goal is the 7700X, although I would like more to opt for a 7800X!!
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Sources:
El chapuzas informatico.
N3D.
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Regards!!

[_Neptunno_]

AMD confirms that the Ryzen 7000 come with an integrated Radeon graphics
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The presentation of the Ryzen 7000 left an important detail in the air, and is that AMD did not confirm at the event if these were going to finally have an integrated graphics, which was what numerous rumors pointed out, or if they were going to come without said component.

Finally AMD has clarified this issue in the list of official specifications of the Ryzen 7000 that it has published on its official website, where it can be seen that indeed these new processors are going to have an integrated Radeon GPU that will have two computing units, and that will be based on the RDNA2 architecture, which means that they add 128 shaders, 8 texture units and two ray tracing acceleration units.

The integrated GPU of the Ryzen 7000 is manufactured in the 6 nm node of TSMC and is located in the I/O chip, a very different configuration to that of the company's APUs where the GPU comes integrated in the same package as the processor. The working speed of this GPU will be 400 MHz at its base speed, and it will reach 2.2 GHz in turbo mode. We cannot expect high performance, that is evident, but the inclusion of an integrated GPU is a great success on the part of AMD, since it can be a useful resource.

The clearest example of that utility is when our dedicated graphics card is broken. Thanks to the integrated one we could continue using the PC without any problem, although the performance is limited. The portion that this integrated GPU will occupy in the I/O block will be very small since it only has 128 shaders, and its cost should also be minimal.

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Source: N3D.

[defaultuser]

@defaultuser said in AMD Ryzen 7000 (Zen 4):

I read somewhere about 4 memory channels??

Well, you'll have to buy 4 modules to get the most out of it, even if it's just for gaming or if you want the lowest latency.

Now that is something that makes me a little envious.

Quad channel jjjjj if the hardware gossip press has to write a lot with little information and say very strange things, like the new possibility of having different latencies on the mounted modules is going to be for channel A,B,C and D jjjj, from there to assume that they come with quad channel that's a bit of oil on the floor.

Not so much the DDR5 looks very interesting, let's see if they really bring the integrated temperature sensor as was said a while ago.
I already had a flat sensor with LCD on the ddr2 to study its behavior, and it turned out that controlling the temperature allowed us to get a good margin that, along with the CPU and chipset OC, resulted in a brutal overall system latency for the time.

I'm not going for zen 4, but if I were in the market for a change I would be very excited just for the tuning possibilities.

[_Neptunno_]

At the end so many expectations and we don't comment anything!!
Well, in principle somewhat disappointed by the price issue although it was something that was already expected since the last leaks. Moving to a Ryzen 7000 brings with it the use of DDR5 memory, the Mobo that are affordable start at 125€ and that the CPU “most modest”, 7600X, starts at a very high price.
As for performance, if we stick to the data that is being seen, they are quite good. Maybe I had the feeling (as always because they are heating us up a lot) that the performance against the 12Gen Intel would be greater. However, I may not have all the necessary information to affirm this data 100%.
Intel seems to be starting with more advantage since the Raptor Lake can be used with DDR4 (although of course they would not get the full potential of the DDR) and many people will opt for these processors that, apparently, are going to be better adjusted in price. The only thing is that a difference in performance per core is not expected compared to the 12Gen since practically this refresh is an improvement above all at the level of counting cores (ugh, I remember when AMD was the one doing this). I imagine that this will make AMD have to lower prices soon... or perhaps they will not sell everything they would like.
In any case, we will see how prices evolve, Bios and drivers are polished so that later on we can make the decision to move to one platform or another

AMD Ryzen 9 7900X, halfway between the 7950X and the 7700X

In single-thread the 12900KS wins by the minimum but practically it can be said that it is a technical tie between that and the 7950X.

In multi-thread is where there is a huge difference between the 12900KS and the 7950X.

To not lengthen the post much, I leave you the rest of the tests from the source of the news: https://elchapuzasinformatico.com/2022/09/amd-ryzen-9-7900x-review/

Greetings!!

[kynes]

@_neptunno_ Del tema precio, os puedo comentar un poco porque me afecta directamente en mi trabajo. Importo mucho material de USA, y el tipo de cambio con el Euro me está machacando, en pocos meses ha pasado de 1.15$ por euro, a la paridad, lo que implica que todo sea aproximadamente un 13% más caro simplemente por la variación del valor de las monedas.

Es normal que los fabricantes de hardware, que trabajan en dólares, repercutan esta subida, lo hemos visto en los iphones... Lo vemos diariamente en los derivados del petróleo. Para AMD lo importante es cuántos dólares le quedan al final, los distribuidores les comprarán en dólares, y ellos ven el mismo dinero, aunque nosotros paguemos muchos más euros.

En la foto se puede ver cómo ha variado el tipo de cambio desde enero hasta final de septiembre, y se puede ver claramente cómo se va debilitando el euro, y eso sin contar el aumento de costes del transporte, materiales...

[Fassou]

This manufacturing in Europe was not happening

The 7600X looks good, but a new motherboard, DDR5 that better not pay for the novelty that are still expensive, graphics that are much better but also a joke. Playing on PC is for the rich!

Regards!

[defaultuser]

They will come down. First they take advantage of the hype they have been putting in, then when it is well compared to the competition and the data in general is corroborated, the hype and the price will come down a little (it will stop being such a novelty). Then if Intel sets good prices, it will also force another little drop from AMD. Then when more models come out, when we have all the ranges of boards available, more RAM options, more polished bios, and etc, I think it will start to have prices more in line with the real value. And finally, when the base models come out, they will also have to lower all the inferior ones a little (ryzen 3 and previous), for those who want to upgrade without getting into the latest. Everything is a matter of the right time to buy of course, the bad thing is to have the money in your pocket and the juicy material in front of your face It is equally interesting to wait until February or March. Salu2. PD: I personally have just started, and I am seeing that I have enough for a while. It may even be that one day I put a zen 3 in it before changing platforms, that if things do not change much I am quite well served.

[jordiqui]

@_neptunno_ What is it that today I have been talking to a man with years of modding experience behind him and a shop in Terrassa. What he told me is that those who put this together, just like the Intel 12, need very good cooling and a very good motherboard. I was testing an i7 of 12 with a basic motherboard and he told me that it is a mistake. By the way, doing numbers, with a 512 pci ssd, the ryzen 7 another pci ssd for data of 1Tb, 2x16 Gb ddr5, corsair what would be the obsidian, I don't know what name it has now ATX, corsair modular power supply, and a liquid cooling I didn't go below 2000~euros. But I think I have seen that the ryzen 9 exceeds 5 ghz that must consume a lot. Anyway, I don't understand why they haven't given support to DDR4. - And the blocks of the liquid for AM5, well I haven't seen them. I have sold the bike, to get one of these, but the thing with the motherboards is giving me a headache because the prices are ridiculous.

[jordiqui]

@fassou This I think is the one I've looked at. And 2000 euros without any excess, with integrated graphics and 32 gb of DDR5. Anyway....

[Clipper]

I don't think it's necessary to start from scratch to switch to the new AMD.
After all, we only need the basics:
Micro
Motherboard
DDR5 RAM
The SSDs are backward compatible (we won't have the same performance but... It's also not essential in the second mn2)
About the R.L they say they use the same anchorage as the series 4.
And the one that has more or the one that has less we have a worthy F.A to support the new platform.
If we get into a new GPU Corsair has announced a new cable compatible with their "old" F.A (high range) so that wouldn't be a problem either.
Regards

[defaultuser]

@clipper said in AMD Ryzen 7000 (Zen 4):

I don't think it's necessary to start from scratch to switch to the new AMD.
In the end, we only need the basics:
Micro
Motherboard
DDR5 RAM
The SSDs are backward compatible (we won't have the same performance but... It's also not essential for the second mn2)
About the R.L, they say they use the same socket as the series 4.
And more or less, we all have a decent PSU to support the new platform.
If we get into a new GPU, Corsair has announced a new cable compatible with their "old" PSUs (high-end), so that wouldn't be a problem either.
Regards

I totally agree with you.
If it's going to be expensive anyway, we'll have to make the most of it.

I think the PSU thing is great, let's see if the idea spreads, it's just a cable and a connector, like the PWM on the fans. If there are other new things about PSUs, it depends on each one.

The cooling, according to Mesi Der8auer, has to come with the base a little lower than on AM4, to touch and make the same pressure, well, the one that doesn't give that margin with the block/heatsink could add one or two washers on top of the screws to increase that pressure and distance.

If just changing the CPU, motherboard, and RAM is going to be a big expense, those with tight budgets will have to recycle everything.

@jordiqui You'll see how motherboards that meet the essential conditions that only the top-end ones have at first will start coming out, but in slightly more basic models, there will end up being a "mid-range" range that's more than enough for mid-range micros.
For now, it will be the galactic motherboards as always. I was surprised when I saw how well MSI was doing with AM4.

[Clipper]

@defaultuser said in AMD Ryzen 7000 (Zen 4):

@clipper said in AMD Ryzen 7000 (Zen 4):

I don't think it's necessary to start from scratch to switch to the new AMD.
After all, we only need the basics:
Micro
Motherboard
DDR5 RAM
SSDs are backward compatible (we won't have the same performance but... It's also not essential for the second mn2)
About the R.L, they say they use the same socket as the 4 series.
And more or less, we all have a decent PSU to support the new platform.
If we get into a new GPU, Corsair has announced a new cable compatible with their "old" PSUs (high-end), so that wouldn't be a problem either.
Regards

I totally agree with you.
If it's going to be expensive anyway, we'll have to make the most of it.

I think the PSU thing is great, let's see if the idea spreads, it's just a cable and a connector, like the PWM on the fans. If there are other new things in the PSUs, it depends on each one.
The cooling, according to Mesi Der8auer, needs to come with the base a little lower than on AM4, to touch and make the same pressure, well, the one that the block/heatsink doesn't give that margin might be able to add one or two washers on top of the screws to increase that pressure and distance.

If just changing the CPU, motherboard, and RAM is already a good expense, those with tight budgets will have to recycle everything.

@jordiqui You'll see how motherboards that meet the essential conditions that only the top-end ones have at first will start coming out, but in slightly more basic models, there will end up being a "mid-range" that is more than enough for mid-range micros.
For now, it will be the galactic motherboards as always. I was surprised when I saw how well MSI was doing on AM4.

According to the photos of the new motherboards for AMD, the heatsink support is the same (same brown)
I have PSUs with AMD and with their system, the height of the IHS is the same.
Just tighten the screws more and that's it.
Personally, I think they could have put it like Intel (four screws)
Which is what I did when I tuned my Triton 88, I changed it to direct support on the motherboard with four anchors.
And I have on my to-do list to do the same with the R.L
After all, in my job, we usually ask for metal parts cut with a laser and it will cost me two euros.

[defaultuser]

@clipper well, it seems that some are more limited in terms of how much you can tighten them and would have something less pressure even though they are touching.
But it distracted me, the truth is, what Der8auer was saying was also something about the anchors I don't remember, those that come with their own backplate can give trouble with the new AM5 mounting system, some will have to buy the adapter kit, and others will make the necessary piece

If I show you the anchor I made for the Armageddon for am4, without means without place in the worst conditions, we go like stark kidnapped but without shots jjj, you would burst laughing, but there is solving the problem.

PD: The AM5 socket now has 8 holes, and its backplate too since it has to allow the mounting of the heatsink, but it also has to fix the CPU mounting plate. This means that AM4 heatsinks that come with their own backplate can no longer use it directly, and if you leave the AMD one, the heatsink screws may not be the same thread or may not meet the same dimensions as in their original mounting.
The clip-on ones don't work directly since the plastic support for the clips has disappeared.

The only thing that coincides is the distance between holes, everything else has to be looked at carefully, and many of those who are not into modding will have to buy an adapter or a new heatsink.

Regards.

[Clipper]

@defaultuser Americans have means, they say they went to the moon..
We don't.
But neither means nor anything.
But we are tough guys

[defaultuser]

@clipper Jjjj

[defaultuser]

@defaultuser said in AMD Ryzen 7000 (Zen 4):

@clipper well, it seems that some are more limited in terms of how much you can tighten them and would have a little less pressure even if they are touching.
But it distracted me, the truth is, what Der8auer was saying was also something about the anchors I don't remember, those that come with their own backplate can cause problems with the new AM5 mounting system, some will have to buy the adapter kit, and others will make the necessary piece

If I show you the anchor I made for the Armageddon for am4, without means without place in the worst conditions, let's say like stark kidnapped but without shots jjj, you would laugh, but here it is solving the problem.

PD: The AM5 socket now has 8 holes, and its backplate also since it must allow the mounting of the heatsink, but it must also fix the CPU mounting plate. This means that AM4 heatsinks that come with their own backplate can no longer use it directly, and if you leave the AMD one, the heatsink screws may not be the same thread or may not meet the same dimensions as in their original mounting.
The clip-on ones don't work directly since the plastic support for the clips has disappeared.

The only thing that matches is the distance between holes, everything else has to be checked carefully, and many of those who are not into modding will have to buy an adapter or a new heatsink.

Regards.

Oh, that they do keep the famous clip, my mistake!!!
They keep it to make things a little easier I imagine.

[_Neptunno_]

@kynes I'm really happy to read you here I totally agree with what you're saying, I was actually imagining this these days. But it's hard to accept that for an i5/Ryzen 5, which is mid-range, they ask for 300-400€ keeping in mind that these were processors that used to be around 180-250€. I know everything has gone up in price, we can't look at last year's prices with this year's, but with the economy the way it is, people can't afford it. Besides, if we always go through the hoop, we'll end up paying 600€ for a "normal" CPU any day. Anyway, we'll have to wait for the sales and especially if the law of supply and demand works, which is usually something that puts prices in their place. The same thing happens with GPUs, now it's hard for stores/wholesalers, users and miners to sell them, people aren't buying and there's nervousness on the part of Nvidia and AMD that they have to sell the pending stock. It's crazy!!

@fassou said in AMD Ryzen 7000 (Zen 4):

This wouldn't happen if manufactured in Europe

The 7600X looks good, but new motherboard, DDR5 that better not pay for the novelty that are still expensive, graphics cards that much better but what a joke that is too. Playing on PC is for the rich!

Cheers!

We're in a somewhat "complicated" time, unfortunately the economy is very affected and nothing looks good... and on top of that in the east things are getting harder and harder. I won't complain, because there are people who are having a hard time, but I do think that they have turned the world of PC for those of us who like to tinker and/or play, into something that's getting more and more expensive. But if you look at consoles... it's laughable, because either there's no stock or the price they ask for a PS5 is mind-blowing.

Anyway, the best thing will be to wait for prices to normalize, but if by some chance they go up more in price, then there's nothing left to do but continue with what we have!

@clipper said in AMD Ryzen 7000 (Zen 4):

I don't think it's necessary to start from scratch to switch to the new AMD.
After all, we only need the basics:
Micro
Motherboard
RAM ddr5
SSDs are backward compatible (we won't have the same performance but... It's not essential in the second mn2 either)
About the R.L they say they use the same socket as the 4 series.
And the one with more or less we have a decent F.A to support the new platform.
If we get into a new GPU Corsair has announced a new cable compatible with their "old" F.A (high-end) so that wouldn't be a problem either.
Regards

But most of what a PC costs is in the CPU-Motherboard and Memory. I wouldn't even include the GPU, since if we count people who don't play, they wouldn't need it. And about cooling... as I'm reading, it's better to have a good system with that much more € than if you didn't already have it.
But anyway, if one can't afford to switch to AM5, they can always opt for an Intel Gen15 or a Ryzen 5000 that certainly continue(and will continue) to give a great battle!!

[Clipper]

@_neptunno_ from what I have read, AMD has abandoned Intel's XCM profile and opted for its own. The problem is that from what I read on another site, DDR5 RAM on AMD will be automatically capped if you install 4 modules.
For most people (32 gs) this is not a problem, but for those who want to install 64 gs...
It will be expensive.
Regarding the integrated graphics, from what I read, it was so that in specific cases you could continue using the PC if the external graphics card fails.
But personally, I consider it an extra cost on the motherboard if you don't plan to use it (most cases)
In my particular case, I doubt it would be useful for gaming and less for work. Since the files I move in AutoCAD with rendering and so on would be moved by an integrated one.
For a PC for calculations, it may be more viable.
Regards

[defaultuser]

@clipper said in AMD Ryzen 7000 (Zen 4):

@_neptunno_ from what I've read, AMD has abandoned Intel's XCM profile and opted for its own AMD profile. The problem is that according to what I read on another site, DDR5 RAM on AMD will be automatically capped if you install 4 modules.
For most people (32 GB), this doesn't pose any problem, but for those who want to install 64 GB...
It will be expensive.
Regarding the integrated graphics, from what I read, it was intended to allow you to continue using the PC in specific cases if the external graphics card fails.
Personally, I consider it an unnecessary expense on the motherboard if you don't plan to use it (in most cases)
In my particular case, I doubt it would be useful for gaming and less for work. Since I move files in AutoCAD with rendering and so on, an integrated one would move them.
For a PC for calculations, it may be more viable.
Best regards

There are differences between the two systems, you have to look at the final result. These don't cap your speed when using 4 modules, what happens is that from what they get maximum with 4, they are then able to improve it more when there are only 2 (normal)

You will have to look at the final results but AMD's idea is to be able to improve the use of RAM for its specific architecture using its own specific performance profiles, and adding new functionalities (if the news were correct) such as being able to have different latencies per module, and they will surely be more squeezed and utilized than if they continue to use XMP which is not optimized for their current architecture or for advances they have achieved in its use and which are not possible with XMP.

Supposedly AMD seeks to gain in latencies and not so much in bandwidth, and that "capping" to 4 modules would have to be looked at closely to see what result it really gives and in what parameters it really moves (it could even be dynamic), so look at empirical and synthetic tests.

[defaultuser]

@clipper For me, the graphics card uses between 10 and 12 watts in total rest, I don't know what a pepinon will do in rest. And in small tasks, like the browser or maps, those things that do at reduced frequencies, there is almost certainly more consumption than if the integrated one does it, and more so from within the I/O and without using any more bus.

Moreover, before the integrated meant a reduction in capabilities and now it is integrated in the base design considering all maximum capabilities plus the graphics from the beginning.

It is a premium price for those who strictly seek the maximum price/performance ratio in the micro with a separate graphics card, but it is still interesting because:

If the dedicated one breaks; nothing happens. You are not left stranded, and you can look for a new one with much less stress.

If the dedicated one gives you problems; you don't waste time checking why the PC restarts or strange things, the relevant checks would be much easier and it would take you much less time to solve the problem.

Assuming that the dedicated one turns off completely when it is not necessary, there must be an energy saving to take into account, at least for those who do not use the dedicated one 100% of the time, and the more powerful the dedicated one, the greater the saving.

Considering the failure rate of VGA, the average life of these, and the cost they represent, I don't dislike the idea that it is turned off when it is not necessary, and I will consume its life expectancy by making it sweat in frantic skirmishes

You can take out the dedicated one, for a mod, to put a block on it,....even to clean it.....and while you can use the PC.

You can take advantage of a very good selling opportunity, without having to wait to have the new one listed to start. Yes, without gaming in the meantime, but it is feasible.

The day you renew the platform, if it coincides that the dedicated one you have is a gem that you don't want to replace, if you want you can sell your complete equipment directly with the integrated one, which is more comfortable and faster than selling pieces.

I don't have a commission jjj but it just seems more interesting to me like this, well as long as the integrated one is limited to the power for office work, multimedia and the usual chores. Because if they insist on wanting to stand out with the capacity of the integrated one what they do is exacerbate the point that they are more expensive, and that they take away available current for the rest of the CPU.