@clipper said in AMD Ryzen 7000 (Zen 4):

And Lisa recommends using an AIO of at least 240 mm for cooling, she does not recommend using conventional heatsinks.
Some pseudo "computer experts" have been up in arms...
Saying that many people do not know how to maintain an AIO.
Maybe mine is an exception, but it does not have a maintenance option .
Regards

Haha, I know something about that. There's one who makes an entire video rambling on the subject, only to conclude at the end that the manufacturer doesn't provide either o-rings or liquid refill.
The line where it's worth reading is getting further and further away, and the usual media crossed an embarrassing line a long time ago.
Even Google is selling positioning to anyone without running their proprietary antivirus, and for some time now, the top positions of their search engine have been filled with ransomware.

For more specific topics, you should go to well-known foreign websites, even if you have to use a translator.

AMD's public relations people have jumped to say that what the CEO meant is that they are adapting to the excess inventory of minorities. They tell investors to look at how smart we are that we are squeezing our buyers to the last cent, but when it comes to light they have to go clean up the mess. They have been left embarrassed and on top of that this is today's bread and tomorrow's hunger.

In this case the market will provide. Since the pandemic, the sale of consumer electronics has skyrocketed due to lockdowns and excess savings. Now there are no lockdowns or excess savings and on top of that PC components no longer age as before. A very cold and very long winter awaits them. This strategy is a kick forward but sooner or later they will have to adapt prices to reality and reality is that people are well served with computers for a good season and there is less and less money for superfluous things.

well, I don't know about Clipper. Production cuts have a limit called economies of scale. Intel's poor results show that maintaining prices by cutting production is not synonymous with success. Removing shifts or having factories closed has a very high cost, something that only compensates if the drop in demand is slight. If the drop in demand is moderate, a manufacturer obtains more benefits by selling more quantity cheaper than less quantity more expensive. And as I said on another occasion, that's while maintaining the cartel of the 4 cats that manufacture each component. When they start to get into trouble and really start competing with each other, the panorama is going to get funny. Now they are holding out because the big shots agree on prices among themselves. When the shareholders start to get annoyed, you'll see how quickly they look for formulas to increase profits, and that goes through lowering prices to increase sales and improve economies of scale.

@xerox said in Virtual machine setup:

I'll go with Am4 for now
Budget for these 4 components, about 350-400€

Ryzen 5 4600G for 108€
Asus prime b550 plus for 134€

I got an mp510 480gb ssd for 69€
Memory 3200mhz cl16 2x16gb for 92€

Any corrections or better suggestions?

Missing data......

Could you at least ask him what equipment he has used so far.

@cobito said in A SODIMM substitute appears:

@defaultuser I was one of those who thought Dell was trying to pull a fast one on us, but it seems not. This format reminds me a lot of the format Compaq used in their 486 laptops.

The RAM board is at the top right with 8 integrated:

Basically it was a board soldered in parallel with the motherboard through a connector whose name I don't know. In this case, it was a proprietary format, although at this time, laptop parts were generally quite poorly standardized.

Now there are two of us, one day adding an nvme ssd to a Dell I saw that memory module and I said...OMG! Thank goodness we had no intention of expanding the laptop's ram, otherwise my buddy and I would have been in for quite a surprise

Best regards!!

@defaultuser the F.A that I remember is new, whether it is reliable is another matter...
Many years ago (more than 10) I had a tacens very cool (with passive heatsink behind) that gave very bad voltage spikes, I retired it for the one I currently have, corsair RMi 750 and it is still going.
As I am missing some more 8 pin connectors and the 10 year warranty has already passed I may retire it soon.
.
Regards

By the way, they have been making modular sources for a while, but they have not extended a pattern of offering the cables separately in kits of different lengths, so why do I want a modular one? to leave a couple of cables that I don't need without putting them but still having a lot of excess to put somewhere? I don't think so.

"Although it won't generate a big change when assembling a system, the real benefits will come in compact systems, since the power supply will fit perfectly without having to leave an additional space to make room for the connectors themselves. In essence, the power supply will be able to be completely boxed since the ports now come out of the top, and not of the front with the risk that the connectors themselves collide with the chassis."
El chapuzas informatico

As compact as that box sounds, the usual cable mess will have to be wound around the graphics or something.

"Although it won't generate a big change when assembling a system..."
If you say so.

Here the aforementioned.

Salu2.

@qvengador said in Aorus Master Z690 Connections:

The cable that goes to the fan_CPU contact on the board only has one cable.

Ok, too bad because that's just the cable that tells the fan speed, if it also had the next one (two) it would be the pwm control one, and then even though the 12 volts came from somewhere else, you could control the pump from the motherboard.
Technically it can be done the same way, but the connectors don't allow it. The wire they leave for the board (the one for the rotation speed) is only there because if they didn't, the bios would give an alarm for a stopped/broken fan, and the easiest way to avoid it is that.

By the way, hwinfo64 can open real-time graphs of whatever you want, just right-click on the value you want and choose it from the context menu.

@fassou said in AMD A8-9600 RADEON R7:

You will get at least a glass of juice

However, it will come out quite hot

Salu2!

Hello colleagues, following the trail of the server world, etc. I realized that the watts of the power supply that each of the U servers I have is 250w. So far so good. Now comes where in the PC world they wouldn't have sold it to me, but here they have sold it to me and by a landslide. To begin with, these servers work looking for redundancy and security, not power. That is, if one fails, the other continues. Well, again. So the hp proliant dls360p gen 8 gen9, etc. come prepared for you to have two power supplies. If one fails, the other continues, that is, redundancy. But if they sell you a machine, even if it's second-hand, it has to work well. That is, without failures. The ones I have come with a single PSU of 250 w. Many servers of these, although they admit two CPUs, only have one, etc. The fact is that in the ones I have, only the two CPUs at full load consume 95-120 watts each. Let's imagine that they consume 120 watts with a voltage of 1.2. They are used and I don't think they consume the same as new ones. 120 by two are 240 watts. If the power supply is 250 watts what do we do with the memory, pci cards connected, sound, hard drives, vga, etc. Well, in the past, I returned a PC in a famous store of those that became fashionable for this issue. The power supply didn't give enough for the hardware that was mounted. How much does it cost to do things well? I think not much. Well, again, I don't think the server world differs much in this sense from the PC world. It's math. And I'm from the humanities. Anyway, I have ordered two 750 w power supplies, to cover my back, because if the demand for watts exceeds what the power supply supports or it works badly or in some cases, it doesn't even turn on. That being said, we continue to pay attention to your publications. Goodbye.

@sylver When you say sound system, some people might get confused.
Mainly this: processing circuitry, digital/analog converter, pre-amplification (if any) and emitters (speakers).
The SNR also falls on the pre-amplification in addition to the DAC

@sylver said in Sound motherboard versus sound card:

they will continue to sound like rusted tin

Haha I've had that, a long time ago my first PC speakers and first tower, I thought the sound system was terrible and it wasn't bad, what were so extremely bad those speakers for office work that indeed sounded like tin, horrible.

I agree with Mr. @cobito

@DanHDU As a former owner of an Athlon64 3000+ I can confirm that its natural environment is indeed Windows XP, where it moves like a fish in water.

If you're going to put Windows 7 on it, I would recommend Windows 7 Starter, as its limit is 2Gb of RAM, which is probably the limit of the motherboard you're using. It has fewer functions than the normal Windows 7, but it will run quite smoothly as it requires fewer resources.

Best regards!

@palotes said in Purges begin at Intel:

It was only a matter of time, and this crisis, like all previous ones, is due to a concentration of resources in the wrong places that has made the economy very inefficient. It is not normal for a country like the US, which has had full employment for a year, to be in a technical recession. How is it possible that a country of hardworking people like this, where everyone who can work is working, doesn't have the decency to grow the GDP? It has been in a technical recession since the summer and in a socio-economic recession starting next year, if not sooner.

It seems that one of the groups at Intel that will feel the impact is in marketing. And the reality is that they have done a terrible job. It is not normal that the A770 is being presented today and no one is noticing. We are talking about a milestone in the industry that consists of the sudden appearance of a third actor in a sector that has had a bipolarity for more than a decade. And no one is talking about it? What are these people doing? It is lamentable.

Then you hear things like that there are Google engineers who earn between 400,000 and 700,000 dollars a year who do nothing. They do nothing because they don't want to and their superiors know it, but the shameless ones don't care because they know they won't be fired. The bureaucracy to fire them is so messed up that their bosses prefer to have them in a corner without bothering anyone rather than doing the paperwork. And Google doesn't care about this whole situation because they are swimming in cash and prefer not to draw too much attention in case the federal government puts them in their place for some ethically questionable business tactics.

It is evident that such a brutally inefficient system cannot go very far and I am sure that the bleeding will end up leading to massive layoffs at other tech companies. According to some, very tough times are coming, a continuation of the disaster of 2008 for not having done our homework. A decade with interest rates at 0% has maintained an incredibly inefficient zombie economy. And it seems that the US tech sector will get the worst of it this time.

In the late 90s (Yes, I'm already a few years old), Intel released a graphic that passed without much fanfare, so Intel is not new to graphics, it has financial muscle, but maybe it doesn't put all its eggs in one basket or allocate many resources to try to take a big piece of the pie. Right now it is releasing graphics late and at a non-competitive price. What can motivate someone to buy an Intel graphic? Well, you release a product late and expensive... not a good future at least with this generation. We'll see later about the drivers, but something tells me they will age worse than the competition's graphics.

Regarding the rest, more than 20% of the dollars that were in circulation in 2020 were "printed" that year. There is an episode of the Uncle Gilito cartoons that the nephews, if I remember correctly, found a machine that made money... the consequence was what we expect. High inflation, high interest rates to bring it down, recession and pain. This is the future that awaits us in the short and medium term. But central banks have known this for a long time. Nothing is casual. The middle class is becoming less and less middle class. Nothing is casual, everything is studied.

Add to the list very capable cooling, in both cases.

As for DDR4/5, we will see when DDR5 modules with higher frequency are affordable, it is to be expected that there will be a performance gap in that sense, but we will see.

Hello, I know that motherboard very well and I have fought a lot with it. Have you thought about touching the heatsink of the VRMs? you could possibly burn your hand. you have to put a small fan forcing air towards them. and also change the thermal paste on the chipset. these components get too hot making the processor consume more voltage and overheating it. in addition to that, depending on the BIOS you have, you have an option to limit the power according to the processor's TDP. something that the Chinese have implemented recently. remember that the motherboard has recycled elements from servers. chipset, VRMs etc etc and are components designed to work with forced ventilation.

Hello @kaiser77_1982!. I am Ritman in the Retroinformática group. What I have as an HTPC is an Intel NUC with an Intel J3455 and for multimedia it works great and it doesn't make any noise. I have also had it configured to emulate, although I have only tried 4 things from 8, 16 bits and some MAME.

@clipper said in Computer turns on and off and turns on...:

@defaultuser said in Computer turns on and off and turns on...:

@clipper said in Computer turns on and off and turns on...:

@desvest said in Computer turns on and off and turns on...:

@jordiqui said in Computer turns on and off and turns on...:

@defaultuser more or less. Times change, but the steps to follow and discard don't vary much over time.

Exactly. I discarded the CPU because it always worked well, that's why I left it connected. Fortunately, this computer at least has the speaker for the beeps, the new one, when I built it and stuff, didn't do anything and I was surprised to see that it doesn't have anything and the MB doesn't have a screen or LED, it was like going blind.

My current motherboard is this: MSI MPG X570S EDGE MAX
And it doesn't have a screen or LEDs.
The old-fashioned speaker and off to the races.
Regards

I understand that MSI has been doing well with the motherboards for AM4, even surpassing models from well-reputed brands, that of the speaker must have been to cut costs against the competition, otherwise it would be a negative point in an Edge Max depending on how you look at it.

Depending on how you look at it, to say it again...
If you have a tower with a window, you'll see the LEDs or the screen, if that's not the case... you won't see anything and you'll have to open the PC.
Idem if you have the tower under the table.
Anyway, I read an interesting article criticizing the current mid-range motherboards.
Basically, they said that they stuff us with unnecessary things.
Like three or four PCI Express ports when practically no one uses SLI
More than one M.2 port for the same reason (which wasn't my case, I installed 2)
Wi-Fi antennas, which in a desktop you normally use an RJ cable
And the collection of SATA ports for the same reason
Regards

Well, that's true. The problem is that they make them almost the same in that sense.
There are people who will put special cards in the PCI (capture cards and more) but most don't, and there are no motherboards that dispense with so many slots.

There are people who want to mount several SATA drives, and even complain about few ports lately, but most don't either.
The double M.2 idem, if there are two from the CPU it might be interesting to have a RAID to save (cheaper drives to have size and cheaper speed), but having one from the CPU and another from the chipset is almost useless.

etc etc, I totally agree with everything, but I think those motherboards do have a clientele, the problem is that they don't make the option that sells the most, a PCI or one 4x more just in case you have to put something one day, an M.2 and a couple of SATA, and make a powerful motherboard but with just enough.
For me it's all marketing that we're going to do, most of the clientele is not specialized people and they sell them what they want.

Salu2.

PD: the PCIe and SATA ports are already on the chips, then the traces on the bottom of the motherboard are easy to solve and the connectors won't be expensive either. An example of a decent motherboard but without superfluos would be, for example, a Gigabyte DS3H, don't you think?

I've been reading around a bit, my brand new r5 3600 is also leaving something to be desired in terms of heat dissipation.

I need to do more tests later, but for now, in the delid of my micro I've seen that they solder the his with gallium, and this not only has a lower thermal conductivity than hard solder, but it turns out that the layer of gallium is very thick!!, a youtuber after delidding and applying liquid metal, and having cleaned the resin perfectly, had to sand the lower edge of the his so that it made contact with the die, in the same photos you can see what looks like several millimeters of gallium between die and his.
This would perfectly explain what we observe.

it seems that the new dies are more sensitive to pressure, which occurs with the expansions as well, and there they cure in health with a softer solder that accommodates the volume changes a bit, and with a thicker layer for the same purpose.
that's what I read earlier, and everything adds up, really.

For now I'm not going to touch anything, when I get back from my week of vacation I'll get a laser thermometer and I'll come to more empirical conclusions.
I have more than acceptable temperatures, but I can't get over the idea of having banned access to all the performance that's left because of a "thermal bottleneck".

If I discover something worthwhile I'll keep commenting.

@agarciarroyo said in Micro temperature:

Hello, thank you for your responses. According to what I have looked into, the maximum temperature of this micro is 105ºC. I am also not sure if the measurement programs are very accurate. I bought a cooling base, but when it is at full capacity, it is of little use, if not to say nothing. At rest, it does lower the temperature by about 10º. You are right, I should change the micro paste. The problem is that I am a bit clumsy and I don't dare.
Best regards

If it intimidates you a lot, start only with the cleaning, which will probably be most of the problem, and this way you start with smaller challenges, and opening the laptop twice or three times is not a problem.

Take it easy, with the time it takes, inform yourself well and without pressuring yourself, you don't need to be a serious artist, just be careful and patient.

Salu2.